Phil's living room

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Gothichome
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Re: Phil's living room

Post by Gothichome »

Mick_VT wrote:Here you go Phil! Its a little early but this style persisted. In 1903 it was very modern.

IMG_5503 copy.jpg

Just noticed on the pic, they are displaying the chairs against the walls just like the Victorians tended to do. Noticed the cartouche in the corner, most defiantly in the modern craftsman style.

phil
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Re: Phil's living room

Post by phil »

You mean this thing that looks like a little spaceman?
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Re: Phil's living room

Post by phil »

'62 could be a good guess. The other thing I have to go on is the one foot square ceiling tiles. need to test them for asbestos before I can dump them so maybe the lab will have some idea of that. maybe they had their era.

the drywall says domtar and gyproc on the back but I couldn't see an actual date. since it's before 1980 I need to have that tested too before I can dump it.
I'm always hoping to find little items that offer clues.. I found a few christmas cards and things. last night we were going through them , I found an election flyer from 1950 . during this reno I found nothing fun. maybe I should put together a time capsule for the next generation to find, and some shoes since I opened the wall above the front door. Not hard to tuck a current newspaper in there at least. the place must have looked so gaudy with that gold wallpaper. the previous owners sponge painted over it and I can see why they would ;-)

Phil

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Re: Phil's living room

Post by joyb »

If I'm understanding what you're describing, that's what we found in our place. We were removing the 70s paneling, and underneath we found that they'd originally had trim over the plaster. In the picture, that small section also had the plate rail removed (the lighter shellac on top and then the shadow of it on the doorframe), I'm guessing because people were running into it from the kitchen doorway just the to the right.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/52772824@N06/4924377081/

We also had very similar paper! Except that it was pink with gold. If I remember right (I'm not sure where those pictures are right now), it was painted pink under the rail, the patterned paper over the rail and a marbelized pink and gold paper on the ceiling (under tiles similar to what you described).

phil
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Re: Phil's living room

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I had last week off and found a few days to get to work. I took the old drywall and the lath and the ceiling tile away. I needed test results showing the drywall and ceiling tile was negative for asbestos and it was. I was scared because the stuff with asbestos is expensive to get rid of. a dollar a pound. It took a bit of running around with mixed information from the dump and the gypsum recyclers. the dump won't take old drywall. or lath but the gypsum place took that. the gypsum place needed a report that the drywall didn't have asbestos but they didn't make me get a report for the plaster. The dump wouldn't take the ceiling tile without a report. the reports were 50 dollars each.

all the newer materials get recycled but old materials and the plaster go into a disposal pile so my old stuff doesn't enter the recycle chain. after digging into it a bit I found the asbestos issue isn't with the drywall it is with the old filler. When the lady from the test lab said "if you want to find asbestos then we need a good sample of the filler".. a little light came on.. If you give them filler you might see positive results, if they don't have any filler on the sample well you can read between the lines. it's 50 bucks a pound to dispose of if it has asbestos.

I got the insulation from leftovers from other peoples renos. I had about 4 sheets of 3.5 inch which fits int he stud walls and some that is 4 inch. I fitted the 4 inch stuff in near the front door and Ill probably just strap the studs by 1/2 inch to make it fit. Ill also need a 1/2inch strip to make the door casings fit right, that's ok.

I'm almost finished with loosely fitting each piece of foamboard. next I will remove each one and spray some "good stuff" insulating foam around the perimeter and shove them back in their holes. the exanding foam will glue them in place and form a good seal to the studs. most of it has heavy foil on both sides, some has thick paper.

I cut the stuff with a handsaw. I mark it first and get up on a ladder and cut each slice down to the floor, it goes fairly quickly. after I put them in with the foam Ill nail some temporary strapping across them to make sure the expanding foam doesn't have a chance to push them outward.

as I work the sound of the traffic is starting to decrease. after I get new drywall on I think this will make a huge difference. I may still need to do somethign with the windows.

my bay windows are three doublehung windows. I have been thinking I want to keep them but I'd like more soundproofing so I thought of storm windows. I'm pondering the idea that I could actually create storm windows that hinge into the zone where the windows slide. I think it's possible to do with special hinges so they would then swing right out of the pockets and allow the double hung windows to slide as normal.

in other words, because they are doublehung there is already space for double windows. Half of the space is there to give the double hung windows space to move. It suddenly occurred to me I could actually install removable or hinge away storms and utilize this space. The storm would have to be removed or hinged away to allow the normal operation of the old windows but that might be less difficult than having to contend with full size exterior or interior storms. I wont' change the existing windows but it might be possible to fit storms this way. has anyone seen this done?

Often people with storms just cover the whole window so it won't open and then remove them in the spring. I'd like to keep the storms in permanently as a sound barrier but to do that without preventing the windows from being able to be opened is puzzling me.
You can see the side window in the photo it isn't doeblehung and the two outside windows swing out, so I guess I could use storms that hinge inward for that window. I don't' think the center section was ever meant to open., that's probably just normal.

anyway I think I need storms for the sound issues, but with that and the insulation I think I can make it quieter without thickening the walls.

I think it's R6 per inch so Ive now got R 21 in the walls.

Phil
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phil
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Re: Phil's living room

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So, im making progress with my living room. cutting all the insulation wasn't the half of it. lots of what I had obtained cheap was 4 inch stuff so I had to slice it to fit. I also sprayed foam along every gap of the foam. I stab it near the stud to get the nozzle in and give it a zap of foam every 4 inches or so and then put plastic with wood slats overtop and screw the wood down. then the canned foam can't push the solid foam sheets out. It took a long time to do the whole room and about 20 cans of the spray but it's tight now.. and that's as much insulation you can get in a 2x4 wall.

Next i started with the fancy 75 dollar a sheet noise proof drywall. I did the side along the bay windows. It's too expensive to put the soundproof stuff everywhere i only have 4 sheets so I am thinking of doubling 1/4" with 1/2" with green glue in between the sheets or maybe just using 5/8 for the side wall that doesn't face the street.

It's going to take forever and a day to finish this but I'm moving forward

in this pic you can see my windows. I think they are pretty original. the one at the left with the diamond pattern is bowed inwards and needs repair and I also need to duplicate it to replace the solid pane to the right.

I think the center pane always was just clear glass, but could the center of the three have had the diamond pattern as well?

You can see how the bay windows are with the diamond pattern just used on the upper sashes and clear glass for the lower. Im fairly certain that's original and it makes me jump to the opinion that the center one of the three was just clear as well. can anyone confirm if this would be "normal" ?
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phil
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Re: Phil's living room

Post by phil »

Here is a pic of the right side of the bay, and one of the entrance.
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phil
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Re: Phil's living room

Post by phil »

I sometimes wonder about adding a set of clear french doors where you see the opening near my front door.
I guess it was intended just as a place to take your coat off but this space is pretty much unusable for anything else.

I know originally it had wood or wainscott that went up to the center of the panes on the front door. You can see how the hight was carried around the room, at the bay windows , this height also lines up with the meeting rail of the upper and bottom sash. as I go to the left over to those 3 windows, the height is exactly half way up the window. Ive come to the realization that this is how the proportions were intended, so it makes sense I should follow this as a guideline and the room may look best with those proportions intact.

My plan is to finish the walls flat and just clean it all up for now and maybe in the future when the money and time is in line, I can add some fancy woodwork or wainscot. I did get some free picture rail from my last load of freebies so I might use that to break the paint color along this division since it seems like that's how the proportions were intended to be.
this archway, if I can call it that. it seems quite low. ( maybe to keep heat in ? )
Sometimes I wonder if it should have been higher, it would feel more open, but that's a bearing wall down the center of my house and I think maybe it contains some 6x6 posts. I have posts and a heavy beam in the basement below it.

I guess I'll leave the archway as it is, I can always add a couple narrow french doors here later. I don't' know if they would be nice or perhaps just in the way. I have a few with a square pattern that is about the right era but I'd need to narrow them .

Ive seen other french doors with diamond patterns like the windows have.
Maybe it doesn't need more doors there? does the shape and height of this archway seem normal as compared to other homes of the era? (1924)

I thought of taking out any lath and plaster and drywall on the interior walls. Like the exterior walls I think it is a mixture, with drywall from the floor up half way and plaster behind the drywall.

the interior walls are reasonably flat. the only thing to gain by tearing all that out is the 1" of space I'd add to the room.
I'm leaning towards just putting 1/4" or maybe 1/2" drywall on top of what's there to clean it up. The walls are getting a bit thick but it's hard to notice any other difference physically. I could strip all my interior walls to the studs but I don't think there is enough gain to make that worthwhile. In fact all the stuff that makes the walls thick is also helping to keep the house quieter.
what Ive done to the exterior walls is making a difference. I can definitely notice the difference the insulation makes. I'd still like it quieter but It seems I am going to need storm windows to make a big change in the street noise.

Phil

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Gothichome
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Re: Phil's living room

Post by Gothichome »

If nothing else Phill, you won't have to worry about losing any heat that one night a year it gets cold there. I don't think you have enough room for pair of French doors but two sympathetic side lights and a French door would look good I think. That'll give you a proper vestibule.

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Re: Phil's living room

Post by phil »

I always seem to find the longest way to do things but I'm plodding forward. finished insulating. it took a long time with the spray foam stuff between everywhere but it's well insulated now.

so I gutted the exterior walls. I needed to do that if I wanted insulation, the interior walls are drywall over plaster and the plaster is only finished for about 4 feet on top , and below that there was rough plaster that must have been covered with wainscot but a previous owner drywalled over it. the only thing I had to gain by removing the stuff on the interior walls was that 1/2" of space in the room and the material there is good for the sound issues I have

I spent lots of time reading up on "green glue" I found home depot carries it but couldn't find anywhere else that had it, I guess it's a pretty new product. You are supposed to use two tubes ( and these are the big tubes) per sheet. It says gummy and rubbery and it helps stop the sound from traveling through the layers. Normal drywall or plaster vibrates and it's easy for the sound to penetrate. it's not so much that more density blocks sound or you could just use plaster or cement board, it's the differences in the mediums that helps cancel out the noise, it cant' vibrate at the same resonant frequencies.

I put 4 sheets of special drywall for sound in the front where I face the street. that stuff is 75 bucks a sheet or more. mine was 75 but that was discounted because it was bought and unused and a bit marked up. It's 5/8" so about the thickness of the old plaster. It's heavy stuff to lift, not at all like normal drywall. I had to cut both sides and then when you try to snap it you have to bend it back and forth until it breaks. I'd do all the walls in that if I could afford it but it's pricey stuff.
the only other soundproof drywall I can find is 1/2" and 75 bucks a sheet at lowes. but I think it's just normal drywall with the gooey stuff in the middle whereas the stuff I bought uses different stuff in the drywall itself. lots of silica instead of regular gypsum.

I had 10 sheets of 1/2" 8 ft lightweight drywall. I was going to use that on the ceiling but my friend convinced me to go with 10 foot sheets, less seams. so I had the 1/2" x 8 foot stuff left. I am using that with the green glue on the interior walls. I chose 1/2" because I had it but i'm experimenting with some 1/4" drywall, that stuff would be fine for covering plaster walls and you wouldn't need to play around with old wallpaper and lath patching if you used that.

I thought I might experimenting with bending the 1/4" stuff near the bay windows. Or I can do the curves with mud and paper , or I might be able to get curved corner bead. Ill sort that out yet.

Im just using one tube of green glue per sheet on the interior walls. no point going too crazy there it's the street noise I want to cut down on mainly.

I need to buy drywall for the exterior wall and I m trying to decide if I should use 5/8ths fireproof drywall or maybe I can use 1/4" plus 3/8" drywall with the green glue between. Two layers would probably block sound better but the fireproof stuff is the cheaper way to go. The green glue is 14 bucks a tube. 28 bucks per sheet if you use 2 as they claim you should.

Its meant to go between sheets of drywall or between plaster and drywall but I put some on my studs before I started sheeting with the soundproof stuff. and Ill likely do that on the exterior wall as well.

of course every electrical box seems to need some adjustment but Im plodding along in a forward direction. I'd say so far I can see it has helped with the sound and I stil have one wall open execept for insulation. the majority of the sound comes through the windows and I think Ill make double windows. the wood windows are a feature I don't want to loose but it is also the cause of most of the noise. doubling up the windows seems the only answer and I am thinking of making interior windows that open in so the others can still open. I dont' really want to take them in and out and I need the soundproofing year round.


Phil

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