Got a Before & After to share? Let's see 'em!

[nhguy]

Your added bits really tied in nicely ! a lot of that old oak was ammonia fumed. The ammonia brings out the definition much like a stain but its also a poisonous gas so it isn't commonly used today.

Thanks for the compliments. I read about fuming and dying also, but it was information overload, so in the end just did what seemed within my skill set. The stain color match is perfect the grain not so much. Perhaps at some point I'll redo the plate rack with some quarter sawn oak. The next project is the living room which is 25x18 I estimate it will take a month which means it'll take two. I'll have to do the room in two parts as the 500 lb piano can't leave nor the 500 lb walnut corner cupboard. I'll have to pull some favors from at least three neighbor guys to shuffle around the two big furniture items.

[phil]

I'd just get those things up on a cart or something with wheels. you might need some blocks on top of the cart to support it. If you can wrap it up and then just push it yourself it'll be easier as you wont; have to keep breaking the project up or calling for help. If you don't have a furniture dolley , they are easy to make , usually a couple of sheets of plywood with 4 suitable wheels. Movers use them a lot , usually they cover them in carpet and make a hole to use as a carry handle. then later they are handy for moving heavy items. I made a smaller one to fit my welder so if I want it then I lift the welder off it and when not in use I just keep it under the welder so it's easy to move around. you can lift almost anything yourself if you just use a pry bar and an assortment of blocks, just lift one corner at a time and stick in more blocks as you circle the item. You just have to always be sure you aren't tipping it so much it's in danger of toppling.
I often move extremely heavy machines this way by myself. sometimes I just use little pieces of pipe or steel dowels rather than wheels. if it's extremely heavy maybe steel plates for the rollers to roll on.
a bit of ingenuity saves your back. riggers use "skates" but you won't need those. Ill post a link. it has a handle to steer the skate with.. its overill for what you need there,
https://riggingcanada.ca/store/general- ... nnEALw_wcB

a piece of 1/4" steel dowel will do to roll on. thin steel plates agains the rollers give them something other than wood to roll against.
If you don't lift things more than enough to clear the floor they won't tip over on you. one way you can get into trouble is if you use 4 wheels and the item is high above the floor , then one gets free because weight can be such that it is sitting on three wheels and the whole thing can topple. I can move almost any object by myself although not quickly, safely and without using muscle. with heavy machinery you can forget about using your muscles but its surprising how much you can move yourself with just little bits of steel rod some various blocking , steel plates little rollers and not hurt your back. sometimes a little hydraulic car jack works if there is room for it instead of prying.

you might envision the piano sitting on 2 sheets of plywood with little steel rollers ( 1/4" steel rods) between the sheets of plywood. as you push the little rollers just roll between the sheets. the piano moves almost effortlessly. eventually you reposition the rollers and the lower plywood. the piece of plywood the piano sits on stays put in relation to the piano..
and you can steer it by placing the rollers the way you want. If the piano was so heavy the steel roller wanted to indent in to the plywood you can place sheets of steel between. - probably not necessary for the weight of a piano, maybe if it were as heavy as a car or a tractor.

You can use thin plywood to protect the floor if it's going to mark up the floor. of course if you use a pry bar to lift a piano you'd want something on top of the floor so your pry bar wouldn't touch the floor and mark it. the piano might have feet that are hard to pry under so you could use a couple large wood blocks between the floor and a suitable part of the frame then stick the pry bar between the two wood blocks so you don' mark up your piano or the floor. the pry bar will only lift so much but then if you use a stack of blocks you can rearrange them to take the weight, and then you can reposition your blocking for another pinch upwards.

You might consider laying two sheets of plywood on the floor and then get help to put the piano on top of they plywood. and after that you can move it about yourself this way. you might need to position more plywood to roll onto as you go. you might sub the plywood for a plank or whatever you have handy. usually if you just look around you can find stuff that will work that you have handy.

I'd have some concerns about getting a team of guys that are lifting your items. one may hurt his back , or they may not work in synch if you don't have a clear plan and define who is leader. Ive seen many arguments and excited people when you get guys all trying to move something heavy that aren't used to doing it. . so I'd just use little blocks and rollers and stuff and it is harder to explain than do but you don't ever need to use your back to lift the thing clear of the floor and carry it. Just do it in small increments and be careful about putting it in a position where it can tip.

I've worked with heavy machinery movers. they come with flatdecks and cranes and all the equipment like lots of blocking, skates steel plates. there is always one lead hand and everyone listens to him and no one else just like he's an army drill sargent, his job is to command and watches everything. It can be dangerous otherwise. If machine tips don't think you can stop it or jump clear. people initially have the reaction they can stop something falling over and then sometimes get squished.

everyone has been in the position where you have two people moving a couch with different ideas and that easily leads into an argument or two people with different ideas;-) That's why I'd go at it with just a little pry bar and little bits of steel rod and then I'm in control of the situation and not stressed or fatigued. Its a little puzzle but usually not so hard. If you stop and just thing and figure out each move like it were a chess game it will happen with no damage or stress or hurry up. Get a group together and everyone gets all gung ho and that's where accidents happen. don't use big rollers and then it'll keep the load very close to the floor and there will be no tipping over. 1/4" dowel is enough. you might just support the frame part and any legs are likely not carrying that much of the weight. you want to avoid twisting the frame by placing all the weight on the legs so first think about where most of the weight is , that's where you need a roller or two. you won't want to stress the frame in a way it isn't made for or it could warp something. my concern might be if you have one strong buddy lifting in a weak spot then he might cause damage before he realizes what he's done. or someone trips or sneezes or farts then everyone breaks into laughter while carrying. I've seen that happen

I bet you've got most of the weight on some feet under the heavy frame part and it may have ornamental legs that are basically just outriggers so that the load cant' tip. If you tried to lift the whole weight by one leg you might cause damage by twisting the structure if it isn't made to carry that much weight. How the weight is distributed might be really important to prevent any twisting stresses. You might even remove the legs if it makes sense to , to prevent that.
sorry I ramble so much

I stripped my living room walls and refinished the floors in there . It took forever and I still have to replace the trim. during the dusty stages I threw in a temporary living room door and found that was nice as I could go make dust clouds without much coming in to the other areas. I borrowed a little rolling scaffold and that helped when I did the ceiling drywall. less fatigue than working on ladders.

[nhguy]

I'd just get those things up on a cart or something with wheels. you might need some blocks on top of the cart to support it. If you can wrap it up and then just push it yourself it'll be easier as you wont; have to keep breaking the project up or calling for help. If you don't have a furniture dolley , they are easy to make , usually a couple of sheets of plywood with 4 suitable wheels. Movers use them a lot , usually they cover them in carpet and make a hole to use as a carry handle. then later they are handy for moving heavy items. I made a smaller one to fit my welder so if I want it then I lift the welder off it and when not in use I just keep it under the welder so it's easy to move around. you can lift almost anything yourself if you just use a pry bar and an assortment of blocks, just lift one corner at a time and stick in more blocks as you circle the item. You just have to always be sure you aren't tipping it so much it's in danger of toppling.
I often move extremely heavy machines this way by myself. sometimes I just use little pieces of pipe or steel dowels rather than wheels. if it's extremely heavy maybe steel plates for the rollers to roll on.
a bit of ingenuity saves your back. riggers use "skates" but you won't need those. Ill post a link. it has a handle to steer the skate with.. its overill for what you need there,
https://riggingcanada.ca/store/general- ... nnEALw_wcB

a piece of 1/4" steel dowel will do to roll on. thin steel plates agains the rollers give them something other than wood to roll against.
If you don't lift things more than enough to clear the floor they won't tip over on you. one way you can get into trouble is if you use 4 wheels and the item is high above the floor , then one gets free because weight can be such that it is sitting on three wheels and the whole thing can topple. I can move almost any object by myself although not quickly, safely and without using muscle. with heavy machinery you can forget about using your muscles but its surprising how much you can move yourself with just little bits of steel rod some various blocking , steel plates little rollers and not hurt your back. sometimes a little hydraulic car jack works if there is room for it instead of prying.

you might envision the piano sitting on 2 sheets of plywood with little steel rollers ( 1/4" steel rods) between the sheets of plywood. as you push the little rollers just roll between the sheets. the piano moves almost effortlessly. eventually you reposition the rollers and the lower plywood. the piece of plywood the piano sits on stays put in relation to the piano..
and you can steer it by placing the rollers the way you want. If the piano was so heavy the steel roller wanted to indent in to the plywood you can place sheets of steel between. - probably not necessary for the weight of a piano, maybe if it were as heavy as a car or a tractor.

You can use thin plywood to protect the floor if it's going to mark up the floor. of course if you use a pry bar to lift a piano you'd want something on top of the floor so your pry bar wouldn't touch the floor and mark it. the piano might have feet that are hard to pry under so you could use a couple large wood blocks between the floor and a suitable part of the frame then stick the pry bar between the two wood blocks so you don' mark up your piano or the floor. the pry bar will only lift so much but then if you use a stack of blocks you can rearrange them to take the weight, and then you can reposition your blocking for another pinch upwards.

You might consider laying two sheets of plywood on the floor and then get help to put the piano on top of they plywood. and after that you can move it about yourself this way. you might need to position more plywood to roll onto as you go. you might sub the plywood for a plank or whatever you have handy. usually if you just look around you can find stuff that will work that you have handy.

I'd have some concerns about getting a team of guys that are lifting your items. one may hurt his back , or they may not work in synch if you don't have a clear plan and define who is leader. Ive seen many arguments and excited people when you get guys all trying to move something heavy that aren't used to doing it. . so I'd just use little blocks and rollers and stuff and it is harder to explain than do but you don't ever need to use your back to lift the thing clear of the floor and carry it. Just do it in small increments and be careful about putting it in a position where it can tip.

I've worked with heavy machinery movers. they come with flatdecks and cranes and all the equipment like lots of blocking, skates steel plates. there is always one lead hand and everyone listens to him and no one else just like he's an army drill sargent, his job is to command and watches everything. It can be dangerous otherwise. If machine tips don't think you can stop it or jump clear. people initially have the reaction they can stop something falling over and then sometimes get squished.

everyone has been in the position where you have two people moving a couch with different ideas and that easily leads into an argument or two people with different ideas;-) That's why I'd go at it with just a little pry bar and little bits of steel rod and then I'm in control of the situation and not stressed or fatigued. Its a little puzzle but usually not so hard. If you stop and just thing and figure out each move like it were a chess game it will happen with no damage or stress or hurry up. Get a group together and everyone gets all gung ho and that's where accidents happen. don't use big rollers and then it'll keep the load very close to the floor and there will be no tipping over. 1/4" dowel is enough. you might just support the frame part and any legs are likely not carrying that much of the weight. you want to avoid twisting the frame by placing all the weight on the legs so first think about where most of the weight is , that's where you need a roller or two. you won't want to stress the frame in a way it isn't made for or it could warp something. my concern might be if you have one strong buddy lifting in a weak spot then he might cause damage before he realizes what he's done. or someone trips or sneezes or farts then everyone breaks into laughter while carrying. I've seen that happen

I bet you've got most of the weight on some feet under the heavy frame part and it may have ornamental legs that are basically just outriggers so that the load cant' tip. If you tried to lift the whole weight by one leg you might cause damage by twisting the structure if it isn't made to carry that much weight. How the weight is distributed might be really important to prevent any twisting stresses. You might even remove the legs if it makes sense to , to prevent that.
sorry I ramble so much

I stripped my living room walls and refinished the floors in there . It took forever and I still have to replace the trim. during the dusty stages I threw in a temporary living room door and found that was nice as I could go make dust clouds without much coming in to the other areas. I borrowed a little rolling scaffold and that helped when I did the ceiling drywall. less fatigue than working on ladders.

Wow........ this is why this is such a great group. Everyone gives so openly and easily which is what I need. I made a cart out of 3/4 inch plywood and strapping using heavy duty casters. It will hold the whole piano. I have a back strap set up which our mason and I moved the 480 lb wood stove onto the hearth with two years ago. It is designed for furniture. My running buddy can dead lift 420, so I just have a lemonade while he works. So I think the two of us can move the piano onto the cart when the time comes. The nine foot corner cupboard is still going to be an issue, but maybe it can be rolled on some 3/4 inch maple or birch dowels, so they don't scuff the floor. I only has to move four feet from the wall and I'm good. Thanks again for the wonderful answer back, which took time and thought.

[phil]

I'm glad it's going ahead. Sorry I rambled on a lot but was just trying to share some ideas. sometimes you automatically think of lifting from floor height , like from the legs or near them. Sometimes if you have a look at the structure you may find it's also possible to lift from a different point like if you were to put a beam under the piano's frame you can then lift the beam even if it's a couple of feet from the floor. something like that would enable you to lift with clear space to slide sheets under. Im not really sure where the structural parts of your piano are though and it's important the support is on parts that are strong enough. I suspect your piano is designed to have it's weight on it's feet. maybe it has a steel frame above the area of the feet.

one way we move heavy machinery is with a gantry. If you picture a kids swing set with wheels , like that only stronger and with chain hoists. then you can straddle the object and lift it and roll the whole works. a bit overkill for your living room. Often we lift machines by strapping them to the forks of a forklift but of course a forklift is not useful there.
If you had an engine hoist that might work in a similar manor, or a pallet jack with blocking to support it can work. my brother bought one for pulling engines. Its got wheels and can pick up a good amount of weight. he uses it to pull fence posts out sometimes. I've got something essentially similar but it's actually for lifting disabled people with a harness.

watch out for heat vents. If a wheel drops in one, that could cause it to unexpectedly turn over.

I really love this Stonehenge video, especially the way he uses his "teeter totter" scheme to lift 10 ton stones by simply rocking them. I've used the idea a few times when I had to lift something too heavy.
an example I was trying to install the table on my tablesaw. its a heavy chunk of cast iron. It was just too heavy to lift by myself. I kept sticking blocks under it and I could lift one end by teetering it on the blocks and worked up to table height by adding blocks and rocking it. once I got it high enough with blocking underneath I could get the bolts through to attach it to the saw and I was good to go.

I think those ideas would work well if you were for example trying to move a heavy post or intact tree trunk, telephone pole etc.

Ive posted this before to the group but I find it fascinating because it's so simple. I think once you get the concept of what he's doing It's not so hard to imagine the same ideas used in slightly different ways. he turns a large stone by using a pebble and shows how to move it. often you'd do that quite naturally if you moved a fridge by yourself.

wood dowels might work. I'd just cut the heads off a few bolts to get steel dowel and then maybe put somethign on the floor. Piece of tin or thin pywood maybe. I dont; know if maple will still mark or not. Youd be putting a fair bit of pressure on a small area so I'd put something between to make sure you don't hurt the floor. Just see what you have that you can use. I keep some thin flat steel plates that are hardened for things like this. I don't need them on a concrete floor but even on concrete the rollers can chip any paint since the roller puts a lot of pressure in a tiny area. If you've got a nice wood floor you can figure out how to protect it. often with machinery I can find a part of the base frame near where the feet are attached that is flat enough for the rollers to run on. usually I can just use a pry bar to lift a little to reposition my rollers as I go so even if it will only roll 6 inches at a time it just takes a few more steps. Never put your fingers underneath when re-adjusting the position of the rollers.
often it's sufficient if I even just get one roller under the heaviest part , then I can sort of turn and scoot the item along, maybe with some of it's frame still on the floor. If you move a machine with a forklift across a concrete floor, its often better to just get most of the weight off the floor and sort of skate it along the floor than it is to lift it up where it could topple. pallets are easy to pick right up but machinery often has a very uneven distribution or weight and unusual shapes. something that is moved without lifting it far off the floor is unlikely to fall or topple but if you get lifting things up high then you have to watch what you are doing. Things cant' fall if they are already on the floor. i once showed my dad how to move a machine this way and he tried to move a metal lathe but used big roller like about 1" diameter. he had it on more than one roller and one got away, I guess it rolled out from under. Then the lathe toppled and no one was hurt but it did do some damage. That's why I try to use little ones , about 1/4" diameter. It's a lot about the center of gravity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K7q20VzwVs

[phil]

here's an example. I have this little lathe at work. it was dirty and unused and sitting in another department for years so I asked for it and I've been cleaning it up a bit. Its too heavy to move by myself, but see the little metal rod on the floor? that's all I need and now I can push the thing across the floor. If I change direction I can situate the roller to steer it. the roller is under the approximate center of gravity since that's the heavier end of the machine. It can sort of teeter totter on the roller so I can turn it. I wouldn't think of actually lifting it with my back. Its probably 500 lbs or so. cute little hobby type metal lathe.

[nhguy]

I'm glad it's going ahead. Sorry I rambled on a lot but was just trying to share some ideas. sometimes you automatically think of lifting from floor height , like from the legs or near them. Sometimes if you have a look at the structure you may find it's also possible to lift from a different point like if you were to put a beam under the piano's frame you can then lift the beam even if it's a couple of feet from the floor. something like that would enable you to lift with clear space to slide sheets under. Im not really sure where the structural parts of your piano are though and it's important the support is on parts that are strong enough. I suspect your piano is designed to have it's weight on it's feet. maybe it has a steel frame above the area of the feet.

one way we move heavy machinery is with a gantry. If you picture a kids swing set with wheels , like that only stronger and with chain hoists. then you can straddle the object and lift it and roll the whole works. a bit overkill for your living room. Often we lift machines by strapping them to the forks of a forklift but of course a forklift is not useful there.
If you had an engine hoist that might work in a similar manor, or a pallet jack with blocking to support it can work. my brother bought one for pulling engines. Its got wheels and can pick up a good amount of weight. he uses it to pull fence posts out sometimes. I've got something essentially similar but it's actually for lifting disabled people with a harness.

watch out for heat vents. If a wheel drops in one, that could cause it to unexpectedly turn over.

I really love this Stonehenge video, especially the way he uses his "teeter totter" scheme to lift 10 ton stones by simply rocking them. I've used the idea a few times when I had to lift something too heavy.
an example I was trying to install the table on my tablesaw. its a heavy chunk of cast iron. It was just too heavy to lift by myself. I kept sticking blocks under it and I could lift one end by teetering it on the blocks and worked up to table height by adding blocks and rocking it. once I got it high enough with blocking underneath I could get the bolts through to attach it to the saw and I was good to go.

I think those ideas would work well if you were for example trying to move a heavy post or intact tree trunk, telephone pole etc.

Ive posted this before to the group but I find it fascinating because it's so simple. I think once you get the concept of what he's doing It's not so hard to imagine the same ideas used in slightly different ways. he turns a large stone by using a pebble and shows how to move it. often you'd do that quite naturally if you moved a fridge by yourself.

wood dowels might work. I'd just cut the heads off a few bolts to get steel dowel and then maybe put somethign on the floor. Piece of tin or thin pywood maybe. I dont; know if maple will still mark or not. Youd be putting a fair bit of pressure on a small area so I'd put something between to make sure you don't hurt the floor. Just see what you have that you can use. I keep some thin flat steel plates that are hardened for things like this. I don't need them on a concrete floor but even on concrete the rollers can chip any paint since the roller puts a lot of pressure in a tiny area. If you've got a nice wood floor you can figure out how to protect it. often with machinery I can find a part of the base frame near where the feet are attached that is flat enough for the rollers to run on. usually I can just use a pry bar to lift a little to reposition my rollers as I go so even if it will only roll 6 inches at a time it just takes a few more steps. Never put your fingers underneath when re-adjusting the position of the rollers.
often it's sufficient if I even just get one roller under the heaviest part , then I can sort of turn and scoot the item along, maybe with some of it's frame still on the floor. If you move a machine with a forklift across a concrete floor, its often better to just get most of the weight off the floor and sort of skate it along the floor than it is to lift it up where it could topple. pallets are easy to pick right up but machinery often has a very uneven distribution or weight and unusual shapes. something that is moved without lifting it far off the floor is unlikely to fall or topple but if you get lifting things up high then you have to watch what you are doing. Things cant' fall if they are already on the floor. i once showed my dad how to move a machine this way and he tried to move a metal lathe but used big roller like about 1" diameter. he had it on more than one roller and one got away, I guess it rolled out from under. Then the lathe toppled and no one was hurt but it did do some damage. That's why I try to use little ones , about 1/4" diameter. It's a lot about the center of gravity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K7q20VzwVs

Again thanks for the ideas. You're right about marking the floor, as I don't want to damage it. A piece of 1/2 inch chip board is $8, so cheap insurance, right?

[phil]

yes exactly. the rollers will put a lot of pressure in a really small area so I'd put something between to protect your floor. also be aware of setting up the conditions where it could tip over, like if you put the rollers on top and they run off the edge of your particleboard.

you might do something like use blocking that only just clears the base frame to make sure that isn't going to be a risk. or use more rollers. If you use multiple rollers then you may find only one has all the weight and others could then roll out from under on you. It's stuff you'll sort out as long as you are aware.

sometimes I have to change the wheels on the wood bins. they are like the commercial garbage cans but not stinky. inevitably they want them fixed when the bin is full so they are heavy as a car. I use blocks and things for safety , to make sure I'm safe working under them just like if it were a car. I won't put my body parts there unless I am absolutely sure my blocking is safe.

my dad once worked on his car in the garage. in a lazy moment he stuck a wheel under there for safety. It wasn't' adequate blocking and he forgot to set the parking brake. the car rolled off the factory jack he used to lift it. he got pinned under there. the spare tire probably saved his life but I still think he broke some bones... he was definitely very sore after that. He was very lucky my mom knew how to work a car jack and she got him out of it. I think he was too stubborn and embarrassed about it to call emergency or go to the hospital

[nhguy]

yes exactly. the rollers will put a lot of pressure in a really small area so I'd put something between to protect your floor. also be aware of setting up the conditions where it could tip over, like if you put the rollers on top and they run off the edge of your particleboard.

you might do something like use blocking that only just clears the base frame to make sure that isn't going to be a risk. or use more rollers. If you use multiple rollers then you may find only one has all the weight and others could then roll out from under on you. It's stuff you'll sort out as long as you are aware.

sometimes I have to change the wheels on the wood bins. they are like the commercial garbage cans but not stinky. inevitably they want them fixed when the bin is full so they are heavy as a car. I use blocks and things for safety , to make sure I'm safe working under them just like if it were a car. I won't put my body parts there unless I am absolutely sure my blocking is safe.

my dad once worked on his car in the garage. in a lazy moment he stuck a wheel under there for safety. It wasn't' adequate blocking and he forgot to set the parking brake. the car rolled off the factory jack he used to lift it. he got pinned under there. the spare tire probably saved his life but I still think he broke some bones... he was definitely very sore after that. He was very lucky my mom knew how to work a car jack and she got him out of it. I think he was too stubborn and embarrassed about it to call emergency or go to the hospital

Yikes! Your dad was lucky your mother was home that day too help him. My former neighbor's brother in law restored British sports cars as a hobby. One day he was working behind one of his cars when it rolled backwards pinning him against the wall. Sadly, no one was there to help him, so things didn't out so well for him.

[phil]

Sorry to hear that about your neighbor's brother. the experience My dad had made me realize that it's good to know how to work a jack even for those not into fixing cars. It's worth taking a minute to explain to your spouse kids, etc. Safe blocking is usually just a matter of finding something appropriate. Murphy's law.
I left one of those heat vent covers out when working on the floor and someone stepped in it. No major injury but it was just one of those moments. You can't always predict these things but in hindsight they are usually preventable.

[GinaC]

Hello all, it's been... a year? Yeah, my state of mind has not been good at all, and my house projects stalled. But! I've been working on my upstairs floors because I ordered a new desk and so I'm on a time limit.

I know that it is far from ideal, but I have to go one room at a time and do it by hand, because I have to live here and there's no way I'm getting either furniture or drum sanders up and down two flights of stairs. This first room was basically a testing ground so I could get down my technique for the rest of of the upstairs rooms.

So let me present Bedroom 2, which will be my home office! It is old growth pine and was extremely beat up. I did not want to replace any boards, and I just couldn't get some of the gouges out, so I decided to stencil it to draw the eye away from the damage. The paint I used is pearlescent so it only really pops in the foreground. The color of the stain matches what is in the solarium floor and the doors, baseboards, and window trim downstairs. I guess in the late 1930's that red wood was all the rage.