kitchen and bath demo

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phil
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Re: kitchen and bath demo

Post by phil »

in my living room I opened the exterior walls to insulate. I used some quite different products. two kinds of soundproof drywall. to stop street noise. one is called quietrock, the other is a similar product. I just try to find used or leftover materials and I have had good luck buying sheets with damaged corners and such . I have to save where I can. its the equivalent of about 7 sheets of drywall for sound blocking but its so pricey. I had a lot of 1/2" drywall and it had ceiling tiles that were kind of 50's dated so I took them out. I had a friend help lift the drywall and we used 12 foot sheets so I'd have less joints but I just covered the plaster on the ceiling. the walls originally had wainscott and they had finished plaster above eye level and below eye level they were rough unfinished plaster. all of that had been leveled out with drywall and mud.

I removed what was on the outside walls. On the exterior walls I wanted soundproofing so used quietrock and it's expensive about 72 bucks a sheet. i used up what I got discounted and that covered most of the louder portions. On the interior walls I used green glue and 1/2 inch drywall. the green glue isn't glue exactly its for soundproofing multi layered drywall. its a bit thicker now but I dont' mind as it helps keep the bedroom quieter and I have pulled all the trim which I will strip and replace. I didn't want ot interfere with the wall thickness where I have windows but on the interior walls it's not noticeible. One interior wall is over an inch think with plaster and drywall layers but it won't be visible when done and all that mass ads to the sound blocking. In some places people layer drywall with the green glue just for the sound characteristics.

on the wall behind the fireplace I wasn't concerned about sound transmission it has a chimney in that wall, and I didnt' really want to deal with removing the wallpaper and I knew It would be the same as other walls with half drywall blended with what was left of the original above eye level original plaster. I hadn't used 1/4" drywall before but on some of the outside wall I used two sheets with the green glue and on the wall behind the fireplace I just sheeted over with the 1/4 inch stuff.

I still have lots of filling and Ill use corner bead in all inside and outside corners. In my case Im not worried about using drywall I know some want to keep the original plaster for various reasons but when I hear of you stripping 7 layers of paint to get to the original plaster, then youll have to fix whatever cracks you find. I'd consider just screwing the 1/4" stuff overtop. I know its the easy way out and you may or may not agree and that's fine, go with what you like . but it is easier, if the 1/4 inch drywall over plaster isn't an issue for you. the way I see it I just want the walls flat and then I can spend more time on details like original trim and refinishing the floor in there.

Ive gone the route of repairing plaster in other rooms but in my case I found it a lot colder and I want the insulation partly for heat and partly because I get a LOT of traffic noise. I tend to not let waviness go and Im happy with flat walls and I know some have a lot more contours in the plaster and want the wavyness.

Ive also been looking at the technique of mixing drywall mud with plaster. I just want to use that to fill any large gaps and level stuff out before I start with the taping and corner bead. I spoke with a professional drywall that uses it it's a way of filling larger voids as of course if you put mud on too thick when filling gaps there is some wait time and cracking and shrinkage. you can use fast setting drywall compound as an alternative but I am going to experiment with it. basicly you make a puddle of mud and carve a hole in the middle then add the plaster( of paris) to the hole and add some water. what I learned and didn't know was that the plaster starts setting not so much when you add water but when you begin stirring it and also cold water helps give more working time. so then you take slices of the "pizza" and mix them as you go and that allows you more working time as you don't mix the whole batch at once. it hardens in about 10 minutes or so and It sandable. when I add glue to the mud it dries really hard and it'svery tough like plaster but it isn't sandable so you really have to watch how you apply it. if I compare the drips after they have hardened with the glue adeed it is a much harder and tougher material than the drips where no glue is added. i use the regular drywall products to skimcoat and generally just take as much time as I need to feel happy about the smoothness. I tend to exceed what I see done commercially but the time I take is also laughable by comparison.

Previously what I do to fill any gaps is mix some carpenters glue into the mud. it creates a very hard mud that isn't sandable . i also bed my tape with mud mixed with some glue and I run the tape through a weakened mix of glue. It really hardens, the tape never peels and I find this way I can put the tape almost flat to the drywall whereas traditionally they usually try not to squeeze out too much of the mud from behind the tape. so the way I do it gets the tape flatter and I use less mud to hide the tape. it also requires more coats my way.

I tried using my taping method on my plaster wall after I had removed all the paint and wallpaper. it had spiderweb cracks all over so I taped each one and then skimcoated. It worked fine but it was twice the work as compared to just going with the 1/4" drywall over the plaster with all the wallpaper and paint. None of the drywall cracks showed any signs of cracking or anything bad after that.
the end result is a flat wall with either method. drywall is generally more flat and some like the character of the waviness in their plaster.

im certainly not saying there isn't merit to repairing or replacing plaster with the traditional lath and plaster materials and methods but I am finding some alternate ways that work better, for me. Everyone's house and how they view their restoration is different and I do respect that.

I may replace the wainscot at some point but my goal right now is to finish the walls and ceiling and replace all the trim which I have mostly striped already. then I will have a look a the floor and maybe sand it. I'm looking forward to getting my living room back and some of the other work like scraping all the paint off the windows and repairing those can be done with the room at least partly furnished. for now I had to cram the rest of the house to empty it.

anyway I guess my point was maybe consider the 1/4" drywall. I hadn't seen it before but it seems to be getting more available here. I don't mind using it if its just to cover whats there now. once it's on its just a matter of taping and filling with regular modern methods. Lots faster than scraping but if you are happy with the way you are doing it of course go ahead.

Phil

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Ireland House
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Re: kitchen and bath demo

Post by Ireland House »

We looked at 1/4 inch drywall, and we would just loose too much of the reveal on the trim work. The door frames etc. are less than 1/2 inch deep. I keep thinking about just skim coating over the whole thing, but then as we work in the room it seems more paint is coming loose. I have counted at least 7 - 9 layers in some areas and in others the latex is directly on the plaster where the earlier paint peeled. There is a picture in my kitchen and bath gallery. My gut tells me if I cover it, it will loose adhesion at some point and we will have to do it over again. At least it is a tiny room. One wall is taken up with a giant cupboard above the toilet and we are covering the wall behind the toilet with pvc wains-coating. The plaster there is in rotten shape and we figured putting the pvc on the wall will prevent any later moister damage from tank sweat or what have you. I have been told the wallpaper I am using can go right over the hairline cracks so long as you cannot feel them, so I only have a few areas to worry about. We got into the wall above the sink to reroute some upstairs radiator pipes. They were running up one of the exterior walls and really in the way. Pex is a wonderful thing! We are replacing the cieling with drywall as it had to come down to get to wiring and plumbing issues. It will be covered with a heavily textured paper that won't shoe anything.I figure if the wallpaper cracks later, I can deal with it then. Since it is a tiny room, I am using somebody's leftovers, so it is only costing me the time to hang it. the only way to insulate the walls would be to add it to the inside of the room, and we do not want to have to mes with all the woodwork. My main floor is this funky brick, no way to get anything inside unless you drill a hole every 5 inches in both directions. At least I should have a working bathroom for now.
Today is my happily ever after.

Texas_Ranger
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Re: kitchen and bath demo

Post by Texas_Ranger »

My favourite flooring layer mess was at a friend's place, I think I posted pictures of that on WG. The first thing we saw was engineered hardwood in so-so shape but unfortunately with a 2" step up from the hall. Underneath that was 3/4" rigid foam board, apparently in a desperate attempt of sound deadening, the downstairs neighbour frequently called the police because of "noisy footsteps" and even threatened with physical violence (including me when we didn't notify him first we wanted to tear out the floor).

Once the foam was out we found TWO layers of carpet and removed them. Then we were down to a layer of cork glued to the next layer - 3/4" chipboard screwed to the original floor with 2 1/2" plasterboard screws.

In one room we tore up the chipboard because instead of cork it had glued-down carpet soaked with cat pee and we needed to get that smell out. There we discovered that the original or at least old floor was in extremely poor shape (huge gaps, splits and badly warped) and also 3/4" below the original bathroom and kitchen floor. I wanted to either replace the old floor or install a solid wood floor on top of it but much to my dismay we ended putting down laminate on top of the chipboard.

My best guess is that the house was hit by a bomb during WWII and was partly re-built. At that time they didn't have the resources for a fancy oak floor and deliberately installed the cheap pine floors low enough to serve as a subfloor at a later time. You've got to know that Austria and particularly Vienna was all about hardwood floors - so much that pine t&g was essentially considered a poor-mans floor ever since machine-milled narrow oak strips appeared in the 1880s and everyone who could afford it got 1" thick solid oak herringbone. That remained popular well into the 1950s when it was finally replaced by 4x4" parquet tile.

phil
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Re: kitchen and bath demo

Post by phil »

" I have been attacking the walls, trying to remove a ton of paint. I finally figured out that a heat gun set on high will get it all off. I think the bottom three colors are oil based and the top 5 layers are latex. What a mess"

I'd just use a crowbar. if you just smack the plaster with the rounded end for about half an hour then pull the lath you'll be down to bare studs a trip to the dump and you are on to rebuilding.. of course it's messy but so much faster and you can insulate too if you want. that way you'll not have to add spacers.

if you want it done faster I'd just pull the trim, use the 1/4" drywall and then cut strips 1/4" x 3/4 to nail on the window frame, then put your trim back on top. leave the window ledge alone. pull the trim careful prying here and there , when off use pliers to pull the casing nails right through so it doesn't chip out. If you want to strip the paint do it with the trim off.

It sounds like you are painstakingly removing paint to restore the plaster. That will work and it saves the original plaster but then you still have to deal with taping over all the cracks and skimcoating the tape. if you want to fix the cracked plaster I'd just use drywall tape but soak it in 50/50 water and carpenters glue. squeegee it off a little by pulling the paper through two fingers so it isn't drippy. Bed the tape with a little taping mud over any cracks you see, but draw it down tight to the wall with your knife and then skimcoat to hide the tape. that will stop the drywall cracks from coming through later on as long as it is fairly intact.

phil
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Re: kitchen and bath demo

Post by phil »

Texas_Ranger wrote:My favourite flooring layer mess ... snip

My best guess is that the house was hit by a bomb during WWII and was partly re-built. At that time they didn't have the resources for a fancy oak floor and deliberately installed the cheap pine floors low enough to serve as a subfloor at a later time. You've got to know that Austria and particularly Vienna was all about hardwood floors - so much that pine t&g was essentially considered a poor-mans floor ever since machine-milled narrow oak strips appeared in the 1880s and everyone who could afford it got 1" thick solid oak herringbone. That remained popular well into the 1950s when it was finally replaced by 4x4" parquet tile.


around here I don't see much pine used. not on older houses. It's all fir. We have lots of pine but it is knotty horrible stuff and that's what they use to frame the mcmansions. we have a lot of it once you go 100 miles from the coast. these are not huge trees usually. around here you can't walk through the forest if it's not cleared but in the interior the trees are widely spaced and you can walk anywhere. We had serious issues with pine beetle killing complete forests. the trees die and really they need a good fire but they put the fires out especially near communities. the fires are a natural part off the cycle.

If we have a cold winter it helps kill the beetles. This year so far so good. they have been clear cutting the forests that are infected but it is a serous issue. clearing out the trees like that produced a lot of pine and they export lots to the US. I think they send most of the fir to Japan. it's sad to see when you see the volume of trees they cut and ship. now a lot of the trim and stuff is fingerjointed crap. Its the same effect only at a different time. If I walk in the forest here a lot of the old trees are cut about 10 feet from the ground and around 3 or 4 feet diameter, some larger. they used horses to skid the lumber out. around when my house was built they had lots of beautiful fir and it wasn't such a valuable resource. they didn't use the lower portion of the trunk as it might have rocks and things in it or maybe it was too knotty. its actually really good wood and I think it[s the densest part of the tree but it was considereed not worth it to harvest, they had lots more.
this kind of wood isn't a renewable resource. its such nice wood because these huge stands grew in close proximity and they grew straight and tall with not many branches in the lower half of the trunk. those conditions will sadly never return.and over my lifetime they have done so much damage. I remember them logging the watershed areas with blimps. i guess they couldn't drive logging trucks in there and they could log in steep places that way. I dont; think they did it extensively but I remember seeing it as a kid.
lots of mills shut down over my lifetime. If you fly over in a jet it makes your heart sink because you see a highway and the trees along the highway and then you see the clearcuts on the other side of the mountains, where fewer people see it.

eclecticcottage
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Re: kitchen and bath demo

Post by eclecticcottage »

phil wrote:I'd just use a crowbar. if you just smack the plaster with the rounded end for about half an hour


I had to laugh at this...this is if your plaster is actually still reasonably well adhered...otherwise, 5-10 minutes and you're done. I don't know if ANY walls took much time in the Bungalow (hence the removal). Well, one did-the one with the giant poorly done drywall patch :P

phil
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Re: kitchen and bath demo

Post by phil »

Its a perfect job if you are mad at something ;-) so is chopping wood.

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Mick_VT
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Re: kitchen and bath demo

Post by Mick_VT »

I removed the plaster from my dining room ceiling with one of those big Ice chippers you use on walkways. I used it like a giant paint scraper - whole room stripped in under 3 minutes. Cleanup, well that was a lot longer
Mick...

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JacquieJet
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Re: kitchen and bath demo

Post by JacquieJet »

phil wrote:Its a perfect job if you are mad at something ;-) so is chopping wood.


Hahahaha, so is THAT why my husband always takes up chopping wood when I'm pregnant?? LOL!
With our last baby, he chopped an entire 100 year old maple tree into firewood!! :shock:
1917-ish
Happy 100th birthday, house!!

phil
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Re: kitchen and bath demo

Post by phil »

If he's chopping wood that's ok but maybe hide the crowbar ;-)

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