what do we need to know about roof flashings?

[phil]

My roof is loosing all its sand from the three tab duride shingles it has. I believe it has one layer. I had a roofer prepare a quote but I guess he flaked out and didnt' submit his quote. Its a bit of a financial crunch so I'm thinking of just doing it myself even if I just get 1/2 done this year.

part of me wants to put like 2x3 strappping all across the roof and lay down about 2" of rigid insulation then new 3/8 plywood and then it could vent near the eves and I could have a ridge vent. I think that would improve insulation a lot, Id have a new surface and the old roof could just stay where it is.

the other option is to just lay a neww roof overtop. I can go up to three layers so I think it can have the second layer and it would work. this is probably my easiest and least expensive option. or I could tear all the old stuff off.

If I do an oveerlay of new shingles, how much flashing do I need? how do I tackle the edges where the old roof is under the new roof. I think my fascia boards are ok but they are really old. I think some wood strips were already added do I take them off or just put more overtop? or use whats there?

i dont' have a ridge vent.. only a little vent on one side near the peak and it is only a square foot or so. Its not humid or wet in the attic now. It gets pretty warm in the attic in summer. in winter it's ok.

im on a main street. lots of traffic noise so maybe a second roof and not taking away old shingles is ok , it would probably lessen the noise as it adds mass to the roof.

I think it has 3/8 plywood. most of it is ok to nail to still so I dont; think I need to go that far as to remove it.

I really dont; know anythign about the flashings or what I need to buy. Im also not sure if I need ot do roof felt between the new and old roofing near the edges? I dont; really have issues with snow or ice. its' pretty mild here, mostly lots and lots of rain.

Im thinking that if I don't hire roofers. I can probably build a scaffold along one side of the house about half way. then move it over.. then take it apart and reassemble when I do the other side. Im scared of roofs so it might help me if I have a platform to work from. I think if I just go for it I can do it and I'll face my fears and as I do Ill get more comfortable. I do have a harness with the snubber thing and an attachment bracket. Maybe if I have a platform I can do some without it.. Harnesses are fine if used right and you have someone there to save you.. the roofers that did the quote seemed to have no fears but Ill be crawling around up there like a big chicken.. still I think I can do it however slow I am..... im ok going up ladders I just hate climbing back down onto them. I could rent scaffold but i think I'm better to just build a wood one then I'm not worried of the cost, its' just some lumber that I can re-use. I think my first project might have to be building a scaffold.

[Jeepnstein]

There's no substitute to stripping off the old roof, repairing the decking as needed, and then putting on a good roof. Shortcuts always bite you in the end, so to speak.

New drip edge, new flashing, the whole shebang. Most leaks happen at the flashing. Don't take shortcuts there.

Roofing isn't hard, but it's a lot of hard work. I can't imagine carrying and nailing a shingle roof by myself if it was any size at all. In my experience it's just about as cheap to hire it done as it is to try to DIY.

[SouthernLady]

My friend, I have no roofing advice, but I am not sure you really want to take that job on by yourself. My grandpa was a contractor in addition to being a farmer. Even though he was a professional, he never took on a roofing project by himself. He always had help.

Try calling the roofer back and ask him about the estimate. Almost always, I have to call someone back because they haven't followed through with me on something, whether it be at my workplace or my personal projects.

Professionalism is lost on many these days.

[phil]

from what Ive read three layers are common , then they strip it to plywood. At first I thought it would be a shortcut but im starting to think it has it's advantages. Its cheaper, there is no junk to haul away. the old nail holes are still plugged with the nails. there is still the second roof underneath if there is a leak. I can do it at my own pace with the previous roof in place, and since I have some staggered holidays through the summer I can work at it a week at a time. I can see a benefit in the helper but I may be able to have the shingles delivered to the roof and save hauling them up there by ladder. I think I'm ok working on my own as long as I have someone to spot for me and my girlfriend could do that.. so I'm actually leaning towards doing a second layer. Hiring out isn't really an option right now nor is leaving it and hoping to make another winter.
I have helped my dad do roofing before but it was a long time ago and I was still pretty young but I guess I still remember the basics. No doubt it will take me way longer than a young roofer with all the speed and techniques but I just want to maintain the house and it could be revisited hopefully then by a real roofer and he'd have twice as much to remove but that might be a few years down the line.

I'm wondering if I might be able to hire a roofer to guide me, that would be money well spent as he could probably get me on track in a half day once I have my scaffolding up. I'd rather just sign a check, but cornering myself financially isn't really that much fun either.

[Jeepnstein]

Doing a three layer roof will make a lumpy mess. Don't expect the shingles to lay right. Also consider the extra weight, unseen problems with the roof deck, and the inevitable beat down you'll get from a home inspector if you should decide to sell.

When I was in the rental business with my family we did our own roofs. By doing our own I mean I'd get the dumpster, the shingles, sheathing, and miscellaneous materials. Then I'd go out and hire a wrecking crew of experienced if somewhat colorful roofers to do day labor for me on the job. They never had ladders, a truck, or in many cases a hammer, but they did nice work. Be sure to pay up your workers comp insurance before doing this. I paid them in cash for their work at the end of the day in a rather interesting ritual that included their wives and girlfriends so I could be reasonably sure they wouldn't just run off and get drunk before the job was done. Ask around. Guys like that are fairly easy to find because regular roofing contractors can't put up with them for long. Great bunch of guys to know, just be aware that some of them might harbor certain anti-social tendencies.

The last metal roof I did was the same way. I got everything ready, materials on site, and my crew just showed up for the "easy" part. Turns out my roofer, Richie, was forming a new company and gave me a fantastic deal if I agreed to put up with him training new employees on the job. I think I paid him $500 labor and lunch for the crew that day.

Now a word of warning... Richie was hopping around with a sore foot the day he was doing my roof. He had stepped on a nail on another job a few days before. Of course he didn't have any health insurance because he was just getting started so he didn't get it checked. He was dead within a couple of weeks from an infection that settled around his heart. There's a lesson in there for all of us who are working on old houses.

[phil]

Wow , sad story about Richie. I had a cat bite my finger a few years ago and thought at first it would heal. I got on antibiotics in time but it was a lesson, if you are ever bit by an animal, take it seriously.

Ill speak to more roofers. I wanted to see the quote but this one flaked and they are notoriously a rough crowd for sure. I need to learn more about if doing a second layer is a bad idea. It isnt' a third. the roofer giving the quote said I'd see quite a difference in the quote. Im really not sure if I need to trim the old stuff flush with the edges and then put a metal corner bead or exactly how that is done on a second layer.
I'm OK with carrying shingles and whatnot, just not whole bundles. I'm a bit scared leaning over edges. I know once you are going it's pretty easy but I don't want to do the flashing incorrectly. maybe in places like near the chimney I can leave whats there and do another flashing over the old. If I tore down to the plywood I could be up against time so I like that I could possibly do it without so much pressure. I work with apprentice carpenters so I could likely elect one of them in second or third year or something, but insurance is a big factor if I were to do that. I'd almost rather do it myself in bits and pieces but I have to learn more before I can make better decisions perhaps.
the roofer that did the quote said both methods were reasonable and didnt' think I'd have issues with it lying flat but also said the shingles wont' have a warranty. If I do decide on a second layer do I need to do more roof felt between? I need to learn more about how a second layer is usually applied and I know it's common. I'm not completely sold on one method or another because I need to learn more to make that decision. I think I'd strip it if it were a low roof but being a bit steep and difficult I'm still questioning if attempting a second layer myself may actually get me by for now.

[DRJR]

Adding a second layer of shingles is easy. But, the existing shingles should be decent. No major breaks or curled edges. You will use your existing drip edges and flashing around the chimney. Try not to mangle the lead flashing on the chimney if you have it. Gently lift it up. Most roofer like to destroy this stuff, then replace it with cheap aluminum.

You wont need roofing felt. Just plop the new shingles down. That it.
I do recommend splitting the bundles if you are not comfortable climbing up a ladder. It will be much safer doing it this way. On the plus side, you will get plenty of exorcise climbing the ladder a few dozen times.

Now it was my house, I would strip the sucker down to the deck. Repair any damage, replace all the drip edges. Replace any step flashing. Repair or replace lead the chimney flashing. Use water and ice on edge.

[Casey]

you have the order wrong for the layers (at least from my east coast US practice). It should be rigid foam directly on the old sheathing, then 2 layers of strapping at 90* angles, first layer of strapping perpendicular to the rafters, then the new decking. The roof is then ventilated properly, (soffit & ridge venting) at least in the temperate climates. And no thermal bridging.
Casey

[phil]

what would you strap it with Casey? how thick of rigid insulation? I would like to do it this way, the venting would definitely make the attic cooler. I had considered leaving the old roof there and then laying out some insulation and resheeting then installing my new roof but I don't know if I want to go to that extent.

Im wondering if I can build a temporary wood scaffold and get the materials delivered there. I remember my dad bought it and they just brought a ladder with a motorized lift and with one guy loading and another unloading they had it all up there pretty quick.

I guess I could put a level platform on the roof to store it. its actually under 10 feet to get up from the back porch If I haul them myself. No way I'm hauling full bundles up a ladder.. Im ok with the project taking time. I think if I can have a platform below where I am working I might be OK. I am OK working from the top of a ladder, but I'm scared when I'm on the roof near the edges. If I feel scared I come down and rethink what I'm doing. I think I'll get better and feel more comfy as I go but I'm definitely no daredevil when it comes to walking on the roof.

the roofer that gave me an estimate thought my chimney flashing was ok. he talked about cutting holes near the peak for a ridge vent but I'm not sure what that would look like exactly. the house across the street has several 1 foot square vents near the peak. I need to learn more before diving into this.

It seems roofers don't usually use harnesses. then they are often charged for breaking the safety rules so I'm contemplating whether I am better to have a platform and not use one. working while being tied off can be awkward too.

whatever I do can't be too dangerous and it cant' be the most expensive option so right now when I consider the cost the second layer looks like a good option. I think the one layer it has is ok. it isn't leaking now it is just loosing all it's sand. a few years ago I sprayed moss killer on the roof and hosed most of the moss off. there may be a little but I could probably just scrape off any bumpy bits. one thing I like about the second layer option is that it could be done in bits whereas a full removal and replacement would have to happen faster. tarps could help I suppose, but the second layer might be less pressure on me so far as time is concerned.

[Casey]

The one I built decades ago used rough-sawn 1x4 for the strapping.
Casey