Baby steps towards the future gardens of Beebe

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Lily left the valley
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Re: Baby steps towards the future gardens of Beebe

Post by Lily left the valley »

Manalto wrote:Remember conifers and broadleaf evergreens.
It's why I cringed when our neighbor was wondering aloud if she should have that narrow stand of evergreens cut down to help sell the house. I hope I talked her out of the notion for the two bigger ones. We have a nice soft edged fringe of what I call "our woods" in the back, and the loss of just those evergreens you saw the bittersweet in would change a lot for our yard since they are smack dab on the property line so we'd lose the shade, the needles and the gentle green fence they make. Same would happen if the owner of the home next door suddenly cleared out all the plantings along the rock wall. I would be so sad, and maybe a little angry to see it go too. We have a lot of creatures living with us in this neighborhood. They'd lose a lot of homes and comfort zones.

The front and east are the tricky bits for us picking out trees especially.

To the east, we have just a narrow strip of not asphalt after you cross the driveway before you hit the stockade fence of the property line. The driveway eats up the bulk of that space, which is why we want to convert it to a ribbon style.

As to the front, between the slope, how they laid the water and sewer lines, and the overhead wires, plus the potential for the town at any point saying "Ok, we're taking over the land bits reserved for sidewalk now", trees are tricky for the front. I don't want anything too big that close to the house. Especially because Sean is very reticent (and I don't really blame him) at the idea of "stepping" the slope to give us a bit more wiggle room.

A few of the trees in the back might hit the house if they just happened to come down our way, but the garage is more likely to take a hit distance wise (long rectangle lot). A bit ago I was trying to look into dwarf variants for the front, and we even toyed with the idea of just letting the hollies grow up, as it were, once they were moved further from the porch. It's something we'll be talking about a lot I'm sure the end of this year and most of next.

I think we did decide that for next year, we'd get a hazelnut bush and possibly another edible. We really like the idea of being able to eat out of our yard. Sean is particularly keen on eating berries before he even washes them--not that we use sprays or anything. We never did get even a melon planted this year--Shoobie was the only human food plant we managed to cross off our list. We lucked out with the bounty that was already here. Next year, I hope to revisit the short list we made for veggies/fruit/herbs to start our kitchen garden (plus companions for both predatory helpers and what food we grow for ourselves.)

I did talk to my neighbor about pinching a bit of her shrubs backing our garage to see if I can get them to make a new plant for me. I have had some success with that in the past, but I'd need to do some research since it's been a while and I don't know those plants well. I am already bracing myself for the possibility that whomever winds up with the house next door could want to clear out all the trees/shrubs for typical whatever backyard--so if they go, I'll have my clippings. It makes me sad to think that could happen, actually. There's a few we might be able to talk them into letting us take them, but not all of them by far due to size/logistics/risk, and it would drastically breakup the nice safety zone for creatures we have between our house and the ones on either side. The property to the west has less along the back of the property line and has very little to the west, but there are still quite a few plantings overall despite that. The property we back against did a huge clear out and brush burn in spring, then sprayed everywhere for ticks. Then they brought in what looks like pallets for a project that are still just sitting--I'm not being critical, our yard is a host of unfinished whatever--just saying their yard went from being fairly like that safety strip to cutting it back to just a barest minimum in the "back" of their property and now it's just all grass and a few property marker plants left.

Budget is both a blessing and a curse. I can't aim too big, but I'd like to do just a bit more.

Manalto wrote:The potato story is fascinating (to me, at least). Scientists go to South America, where the species was domesticated, and turn up all these unusual varieties of colors and textures (and flavors?) known only to a tiny village in the Andes. They bring them back, and before too long, chic restaurants in LA start offering them on the menu. Sometimes particularly appealing varieties find their way to the general population. Ultimately, the success of any plant, agricultural or ornamental, is whether it can be profitable to grow.
Woo! It was potatoes. There's an author/illustrator who is a big fan of potatoes that I only know of due to their being friends with a webcomic/author I read tweets of sometimes. She can talk about them for a long time, and even has at places folks don't normally talk about them. :D

Manalto wrote:One of the beauties of perennials and low-growing plants (mosses included) is that they suffer tons of snow piled upon them with aplomb. Salt, as you say, is the kiss.
One thing I've been trying to do with the dirt I'm removing for the regrade is to move it to the front to try to build up anything higher than flush to the street level. I don't know if was taken out by plows in the past, or it was always just that low. If I get it up to the level our house selling neighbor has it, I think whatever we plant there will be safe. The plow guys actually filled in the slope area of our front lawn when they were plowing during Stella, and then proceeded to dump more on top. It wasn't until I spent a lot of time digging the stairs out to the street level that they stopped doing it.

Manalto wrote: That's always true, though. New plants always look pathetic for the first few years. If they don't, you're probably crowding them. I find propagating plants enjoyable and satisfying, in addition to being economical, but I realize it's not for everybody. Getting to know the horticultural community (most regions have a horticultural society) is a great resource for "pass-along plants" - someone has an abundance of a particular variety and would rather give them away than trash them. It's also insurance in case you lose your favorite plant, you've got a garden buddy with a back-up.
I've read that this is a constant landscaping problem with new build homes. They landscape so the house sells, not so the lot looks great in 5 years. So everything ends up in too small a space for itself. Of course, that's what happened with us and the hollies too--they planted way too close to both stairs and porch.

I have looked into such communities. I was shocked Gardner doesn't even have Lady's Gardening Club or something. The closest one I could find is not close, which means time and gas and possibly tolls/parking, depending. Luxuries I have to wait for right now.

Manalto wrote: You seem to gravitate toward natives (for which I applaud you), so you probably know about Nasami Farm New England Wild Plant Nursery in Whately, Garden in the Woods in Framingham, and the non-profit, Grow Native Massachusetts in Waltham. I like Tower Hill in Shrewsbury, the broken record repeated...

I tend to have a more liberal attitude about natives, and include non-invasive exotics. I've noticed wildlife can benefit from them too. One example is Salvia 'Spanish Dancer' a big, airy plant with red blooms. The hummingbirds go nuts for it. It's an annual but reseeds freely.
I do have some of those spots bookmarked. Even though I've lived in MA before, both in Amherst and the Greater Boston area, I still really don't know a whole lot about what's here. I am learning when I can make time, though. So my notion of distances is skewed. I forget that Lowell isn't close anymore. (It was even closer when we lived in NH!)

Before, when I was allowed to plant things at rentals or property managing, I sort of did whatever I could afford at the time and wanted. Now that it's my home, in my mind I'd love to have a mostly native landscape that's a rainbow of fun to look at during all seasons. I'm still buying some stuff or using leftovers that aren't native or were likely grown in an environment where neonics were used (thinking about our future bees), but I am trying. Part of it is because I want lots of creatures happy as they pass through/live here that I can get a glimpse of at least maybe once.

Part is because I can already see how everyone in our neighborhood shops at the same garden centers or uses the same landscape designers. Everything is slightly different in its own way, but you see the same hostas, the same rhododendrons, same color batch of petunias, same punch visual with the solitary Emerald and Gold, et al. I know most folks don't have time/money/patience/desire to have a yard that more obviously reflects them other than their mailbox choice and door mat. But given how much I walk around, it's kinda sad to see how many homes have almost identical variants of anywhere from a half to a dozen plus plants (including trees), depending on how much boring old lawn they were willing to give up. Only one neighbor within what's likely a three block radius, for instance, has an elephant hosta along with the other usuals folks have (as we do--the "green" and the "variegated".)

So when you do see someone who really made an effort to do what they wanted instead of just buying what was available, it's like striking gold. There is one neighbor the next block down that has done some really amazing things. They have so many fruit trees, and the variety---wow. The only exception is the wall o' hosta on the side street slope of their house. We love walking by the house, because we always find something new to gawk at and think about.

I'm also ultimately a lazy gardener. Although I do like working in the garden and seeing all it has to offer, both vegetative and otherwise, if natives are easier, less chemicaly, and don't require powered this or that I have to maintain as well--I'm all for it. :happy-smileyflower:

Hoo boys...I went on and on again. I do love our yard, and we're in the thick of it.
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Manalto
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Re: Baby steps towards the future gardens of Beebe

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There are plenty of evergreens that stay low; that shouldn't be a problem. You've got a great philosophy and "mission statement" for your yard that will guide you. Check Craigslist too; people sell plants there. I found a great source for unusual gingers when I was in Alabama. Search terms for garden plants can be tricky and may require some sleuthing. Remaining open to varieties that you stumble upon will ensure a non-standard garden, which, in your case is not a risk anyway.

I've noticed that the act of caring for your house and garden is contagious. When I was working on my place in Alabama, each of my neighbors around me (except for the renters) were jostled into taking action on some maintenance issue at their houses. It's a good-natured reminder; you may be the one responsible for raising the standard (above the predictable hostas and rhodies) on your block, merely by doing what you're doing - and chatting amicably about it when asked.

Compliment that neighbor with the special yard, if you ever see him/her out working in it, and you'll have a garden buddy. We gardeners are a solitary lot, and lap up the appreciation like eager puppies - just like everybody else. I'm lazy too; thank God for coffee.

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Re: Baby steps towards the future gardens of Beebe

Post by Lily left the valley »

Manalto wrote:There are plenty of evergreens that stay low; that shouldn't be a problem. You've got a great philosophy and "mission statement" for your yard that will guide you. Check Craigslist too; people sell plants there. I found a great source for unusual gingers when I was in Alabama. Search terms for garden plants can be tricky and may require some sleuthing. Remaining open to varieties that you stumble upon will ensure a non-standard garden, which, in your case is not a risk anyway.

I've noticed that the act of caring for your house and garden is contagious. When I was working on my place in Alabama, each of my neighbors around me (except for the renters) were jostled into taking action on some maintenance issue at their houses. It's a good-natured reminder; you may be the one responsible for raising the standard (above the predictable hostas and rhodies) on your block, merely by doing what you're doing - and chatting amicably about it when asked.

Compliment that neighbor with the special yard, if you ever see him/her out working in it, and you'll have a garden buddy. We gardeners are a solitary lot, and lap up the appreciation like eager puppies - just like everybody else. I'm lazy too; thank God for coffee.
Hah. I hadn't even though of having a mission statement, but it does sort of read that way.

Even though I know I've forgotten at least half of what I learned over my Nana's shoulder as a child, you are so right about the names of things--especially commons. I also didn't know how often plants were recatagorized!

I actually decided just this week to start a notebook for garden bits, beyond my images on my computer, so I can keep track of info in a less crazed way when it needs to be recalled. My Nana kept a simple garden journal, even noting temperatures and such. I'm far from that level with my many bookmarks and folders, but I'd like to work towards it eventually. Hrm. Speaking of temperature, I still need to pick a spot for the really lovely outdoor thermometer I received from next door. It's likely a mass produced variant, but so nice to look at. I bookmarked a page the other day about where the best place to put them is, but haven't gone back to it yet.

As to the amazing yard folks, we have a bit of the ripple effect here with lawn mowers. Once someone fires theirs up, within an hour someone else is mowing, and within days almost all the lawns nearby are mowed. Mine is too quiet, though, to be the kicker. :lol:

We never seem to catch them when we stroll by, but we certainly will when we finally have a chance to meet them. I even wanted to give a thumb's up to the elephant hosta neighbor. :D

In truth, though, even those subtle variations help one consider options even if the final path isn't exactly the same. So I am grateful that folks at least try to keep more than just grass, and I get to see those very subtle differences to consider.
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Re: Baby steps towards the future gardens of Beebe

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Lily left the valley wrote:I still need to pick a spot for the really lovely outdoor thermometer I received from next door.


Facing north is the only way to get an accurate reading.

I forgot about that - mowers trigger everybody to get started mowing their lawns. It takes a bit more time for the subtler stuff.

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Re: Baby steps towards the future gardens of Beebe

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Manalto wrote:Facing north is the only way to get an accurate reading.
Hrm. So either on the garage or maybe the front porch, which might be better because that's shaded.

So...I had an interesting discovery in our cellar today, which I almost posted about here, but I decided since I found it in the house, the full story should go in my house Beebe thread. Here's one image showing both the fungi I found and the wee snail on it.
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Since I had the camera in my hand, I took a few more snaps until I got the "disk is full" message. Need to find more disks since these aren't rewritables. Found some on ebay, but I want to talk to Sean about if we can buy them now or we should wait until the next paycheck. We used to have some blanks, but I think they were part of what was left behind by accident when one storage closet wasn't emptied at many moves ago apartment. (Lost one of our good cameras then too. :evil: Lying landlord, saying we hadn't left anything behind. We knew better.)

Here's the other images...first is another round of berries in the shady SE corner; one of the many flowering something or others that have presented this summer; one weed (?) I haven't ID'd affirmatively yet, and a shot of all the Oriental Bittersweet we pulled down. The post and chain in the back should help for scale on the latter.

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We've been talking about what to do with the berries, and I was considering training trellis (espalier) since we have that chain link fence on the back border. However, then I also remembered that neighbor sprayed for ticks this year, so I don't think I want our food that close to a spray. I still plan to try trellis training on a few of the younger plants that have sprung up throughout the yard after transplanting, so we'll see how that goes in time. I'm thinking I might use the bamboo poles they have at the Agway for the stakes.
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Re: Baby steps towards the future gardens of Beebe

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Lily left the valley wrote:
Manalto wrote:Facing north is the only way to get an accurate reading.
Hrm. So either on the garage or maybe the front porch, which might be better because that's shaded.


Correction: As long as the sun doesn't hit it, so under an overhang would work too. At this latitude, there are few overhangs so broad that they shade the house in the winter; that's why I said the north side.

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Re: Baby steps towards the future gardens of Beebe

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Manalto wrote:Correction: As long as the sun doesn't hit it, so under an overhang would work too. At this latitude, there are few overhangs so broad that they shade the house in the winter; that's why I said the north side.
Ah. Thank you for the clarification.
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Re: Baby steps towards the future gardens of Beebe

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So yesterday, we finally took the plunge and started working on our front yard slope. We started later in the day than we meant to.

We first marked out on the left side where we wanted the "at level" bed to be. I remeasured the length, and we grabbed two of the timber logs that were already on the property. Most of the logs were used to hold down the weed inhibitor and border the gravel for the long gone playground set, but one was by the lily bed we are planning to move as soon as the flowers finish doing their thing to make a walk way out of the cut stone platform I broke up recently that was next to the concrete one at the base of the side stairs. Most beds have rocks for edging, buried under overgrowth despite my continued efforts to clear. Our wild strawberries in particular sure are vigorous.

I'm really glad we grabbed the one from the flower bed because we would have had to cut whatever piece we put there, and that one has a lot of water damage on one end, and thus insect snackery. I didn't even have to pull my saw out because the one end was so bad (I think the one closest to the concrete landing by the side steps) I broke most of the pieces off by hand with little effort, and just grabbed a chisel and hammer for the heart that was still fairly intact.

I don't know if it would be ok to bloop those, as I think they are supposed to be pretreated? The other log we grabbed had no such damage. I'm really glad we placed it much further away from the house, though, since we do have wood siding still under the AC. I'm now wondering if when we open it up, there will be obvious insect sign there, but the nearby cellar window seemed fine, so I'm hoping not.

Once we had those two, I started digging where we would place them as well as starting to pull turf off the front of the planned bed as well, and Sean finished up that front walk edging I didn't the other day. Wow is the turf mangle thick there, especially at the street level.

I singled out a few turf bits that had native ferny bits, moss and such I wanted to keep, but anything with the usual group of grasses Sean shook or banged out as much dirt as he could and it went into the compost. We've let the slope sort of do its thing, using the grass whip occasionally to keep any grassy bits or dead native flower stalks down. So it was a sort of excavation in what was buried and trying to fight through. I found some plants I didn't even know had been hiding in there all that time.

We didn't get so far as to start cutting the small bit out of the slope to make the full depth of the lower bed, but it was already getting late and we were just happy to get that much done. It already looks a lot nicer, though that isn't saying much.

There are some lower height plants I'm thinking to transplant from the back and front yard for the time being once I get back to it and finish carving out the lowest bed point. I still haven't ID'd the main one that will get moved there, but I'm fairly certain it is a native, and the conditions are similar to the front so it should be ok there.

Then I'll start working up the stair area on this side and clearing out what needs to be gone, and moving things around as needed according to our plan. I'll then use the last of what mulch I bought for the apartment to tamper further seed bank growth for the stair side bedding. The two contour beds will get leaf mulch with some tiny cleared areas to try to encourage the mosses to spread. Then it will be time to do the same on the right hand side, which is about twice the width, since the left has the driveway eating a chunk of it.

By then, the lilies should all be going dormant flower wise, so I can lift the turf off the slope and start transplanting them to there. We mostly have two variations that were already on the property. Later, when we get our fall bulbs, those will be put in as well.

I'm still building up the front sections where the town can put sidewalk with dirt from the always a bit a day regrade work I've continued to chisel away at over time. I think we've settled on planting two clover variants there next spring. I'm also going to put up tall reflective markers this winter to help remind the plow guys where the front walk and the bed edging is so they don't damage them as we don't have a curb there, and they've used our property in the past to dump lots of snow. I don't care if they pile up snow on the flat of the slope sections, I just don't want the beds nor the front walk damaged. I also don't want to have to keep clearing off the front walk anymore than I have to. :lol:
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Re: Baby steps towards the future gardens of Beebe

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It's hard to believe it's been about three weeks since my last post in this thread.

On our anniversary, we almost bought a dwarf peach tree that apparently does just fine up here when we finally managed to stop at one place we'd been meaning to for a while. I was looking for cherry trees which they did have, but he was enamored with the peach. He's right though, we do eat more peaches than we do cherries. Despite the price that it was offered, we both knew we'd have to wait until next year before buying anything like a fruit tree. We really were there for thyme, but they were all out. We still have lots of non yard expenses to deal with this year, and if anything goes awry (like the serpentine belt snapping on his car--ahem :roll: ), we need the just in case cushion.

Instead we bought a small potted rosemary. When we married, I asked for rosemary in my bouquet, so I thought that fitting. We stopped at another place nearby, and the small potted golden lemon thyme we picked up there has a lovely lemony fragrance despite what I'd read that this variegated variety does not smell as strong as the green version. We only bought one to see how it winters over.

Between the two herbs we picked up, plus the basil we got from next door, I'm starting to wonder where in the house we can keep part of them over winter, and the only window that will work best at this point is the south side in the kitchen. Makes sense to have them in the kitchen anyhoo, but I've realized already that despite all our windows, we don't get a lot of strong sunlight on three sides for the most part because of the porch out front, plus the two homes rather close on east and west sides. Oh, and the birch trees and one oak on the west as well. The upstairs north windows get a decent amount of sun in the craft room, despite their size because nothing really blocks them so far. Across the street, they have some tall evergreens hiding the view to their pool, so I'm going to keep an eye on if we get affected by that at all when the sun starts to change towards winter.

We've been making slow but steady progress on the front and both side yards. Slow because the turf is incredibly thick despite the thatching I did in spring, so it's not the easiet spading that up. We're also removing quite a bit of it overall. We're also still trying to build up the bottom most part, which has been interesting to observe what gets washed away or not after each build up. We're at about the apex of the hill on our front street, so watching the water flow has been a learning experience.

All the day lilies are pretty much spent now. The stalks are at least half brown, and depending on the plant, the leaves vary between brown, yellow and green. There are two buds that formed just before we had an unseasonably cool week on different plants, and they still haven't bloomed. The temperatures are a bit warmer now, but I still think they might never open.

The few sunflowers that grew from the seeds I found that weren't properly stored are still no where near full size. I think part of why many of them didn't grow was the bad storage conditions, and others were killed by random diggers in our yard, including one that was doing surprisingly well considered where I planted it. I definitely planted those seeds at the latest recommended date, as there are fully grown sunflowers all about Gardner, which is partly why they're still so short as well. Again, I'm not sure how much the cool spell is hindering. I was most surprised that the one that is tallest is the one in the greatest amount of shade, but it's also near our water barrel overflow area, so that may have something to do with it even though we water them every day it's not raining. It also was a bed that was tended more recently, from what I can tell, so the nutrients overall may also have been better. I haven't tested any of the soil other than the crumble some in your hand method to try to guess type and water retention sorts of thing.

I did spot a few bigger slugs of late, but less than a half dozen. We seem to have many more moths than butterflies here. We still have many dragon, damsels and skimmers as well as bees and wasps. The ants have really started to make their presence known since early August. We saw one small scout and one big black scout in the office, but no more. The small one I managed to get, but the big one was quick. I'm not sure if they are coming in through the leaky windows, or the hole in the floor from the cellar for the internet cable. I finally found a small squeeze tube of silicon, so I will be sealing up that hole around the wire in case it was that. I don't spend much time down there, but haven't noticed a large amount of ants either. Not even near the one rotting sill of a cellar window I hope to repair before October. We also have a lot of grasshoppers now. I've only seen a few crickets, but lots of grasshoppers.

We have played around a bit moving some things from the partly shady spots in the back to the front, with varied success. We finally marked out paths and bed borders with stones we found on the property that we've been using as our digging guides (plus the paint marks for the water and sewer lines to avoid).

I continue to be amazed at how many different plants and especially all the mosses in particular here. It really is lovely. I'm really glad we decided to let the seed bank show itself because we could never have afforded as many flower replacements to the ones that have grown here this summer.

We still have many tiny trees. I've started potting a few, thinking of next year and trying to sell some things. I think we will have a forever supply of them sometimes, of course it doesn't hurt that we have an oak on the property border either, though we have many maple type whirlybirds that I still do not know where they are coming from.

The more work we do, the more both of us are looking forward to getting the willow next year. We know it will be another slow but steady project, but we're ok with that.

Lately, it's been hard looking at the yard because it's in progress, so it looks like a whole lot of unfinished. :D Still, with each day we get a bit more done.

We almost have our $120 bulbs list nailed down for certain. I hope to be putting that order in as soon as we do so. Those will also go on the front slope, as I've mentioned before.

Eventually, I will finally be able to move the day lilies from the east side to the front, which will free up room for the regrade on that side, as well as the laying of the stones I broke up from the extended landing. I really want to get that done before winter so I can see how the regrade and stone laying hold out over frost and freeze.

Lastly, I still need to start the concrete patching. I don't think I'll get it all done this year, as I found one spot that is much worse than I guessed, but it's out of the way, so it can wait if necessary.
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Re: Baby steps towards the future gardens of Beebe

Post by Manalto »

Rosemary will survive the winter in the ground in Gardner with protection. In December, take a peach basket full of oak leaves and place it upside-down over the plant. Put a rock on top (the bottom of the peach basket) for stability. Remove it in March.

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