I'm a maytag repairman now

[phil]

I got home and noticed water all over the floor in the basement below my old maytag. I got the set used and pretty old 10 years ago for $50 and it did well. its probably 30 years old..
so I dug into the problem and it needs a new seal under the tub. I had to borrow a special wrench to get it apart. seems like the parts will be around 100 bucks so I ordered those online and I will go ahead.

I looked for other washing machines free or cheap and came across a 10 year old giant washer made by samsung.
I picked it up thinking Ill try to fix that one too and we can have a choice which to keep.

these new ones sure are not as easy to fix and it seems they have a part called a
'spider' which is a big aluminum or pot metal thing, looks like a peace sign. It that holds the shaft and bearings that the horizantal) drum spins on. parts are around $200 or so and the whole machine has to come apart entirely. It looks like a big job but nothing super hard to do. It looks like new inside. mostly plastic.

I think he said the new one he replaced it with was $1400. the part that failed seems it was designed to fail otherwise all they needed to do was use better metal. maybe some detergents attack the pot metal part and it's really buried within the drum so the average homeowner probably just bites the bullet and replaces the thing. when they fail of course you ave a pile of laundry and it quickly becomes inconvenient.

he had called a repairman in and the guy must have quoted him pretty close to cost of a new machine for the repairs. I think if I fix the thing I might just resell it for a bit more, cover my parts cost and make a few bucks on it. It doesn't have that much bigger of a footprint but it's pretty huge with lots of big shiny buttons and bling. not much to loose since it was free anyway. I think the old Maytag is going to outlive it.

I know how to have fun on a budget

[Lily left the valley]

Planned obsolescence is the most evil thing companies have ever done (and that's saying something). What you're describing with the Samsung sounds like a classic case of it. So damn wasteful.

Looking forward to progress reports on this!

[phil]

I had borrowed a tool to get the proprietary nut off the maytag. I made a special tool so I could put an air impact on that tool because it was so frozen. After a lot of bashing the nut that holds the drum on, I succeeded in freeing the nut, so I can continue once parts arrive.

The Samsung looks like a larger project as it has to be completely disassembled but once I can do laundry I can take my time with that and see what it needs before I invest in new parts.

Yesterday I spoke to an electronics tech that had the same problem ( at home) with his newish maytag , also a front loader. he said he spent 3 days trying to get it apart , laundry piled up and eventually he went and got a new one because it was getting frustrating. Same thing with that model, complete disassembly required.

what a racket for the manufacturers. a lot of people learned to service their own with the old ones but the new ones are a different animal.

[Lily left the valley]

{snip}what a racket for the manufacturers. a lot of people learned to service their own with the old ones but the new ones are a different animal.

Profit over common sense. If lawmakers start forcing them to make them more easily repairable, then they'll adjust the price to compensate because CEOs need a fourth yacht, don't ya know?

[phil]

I know it's a bit off topic but most old house people use a modern machine of some sort.

I dug into it more and it sounds like the "spider" which is the pot metal piece that attaches the drum to the axle it spins on turns to dust because the metal basically rots.

the issue is that the machine is like a terrarium with the door closed. so if you own one leave the door open when not used. the problem is worse also because of the detergent, and evidently using cold water or too little detergent causes it to worsen, and using bleach helps as the crud around the part if kept wet by the bio matter helps things along. bleach helps kill it. the liquid detergents dont have bleach so they are bad and some of the powders have a powdered bleach , that's good.

you can't see the parts at all with the machine assembled.

the drum is stainless and the pot metal is not, this causes a reaction of the dissimilar metals. the two metals have a known voltage and the cause is due to the dissimilar metals. The same issues are looked into scientifically for bridges , ships etc, sometimes they use a "sacraficial anode" which rots rather than the bridge or ship. sometimes they apply a voltage and this can also stop it , they can also isolate the parts electrically with an insulator between.

the makers know this , the consumers don't and the repairmen and manufacturers probably like it that way.

im wondering if I could put a few wraps of wire around the drum and a magnet nearby. that would act like a generator unto itself and if I could put a charge on the drum it would probably fix the issue. the problem I cant' think my way through is how to connect it , it would probably need a brush to connect it to ground and the other end of the wire could connect to the drum.

I think it just needs a volt or so applied so the effect of dissimilar metals is cancelled out. maybe a battery could do that. Now I'm trying to re- engineer the thing in my mind.

all the major brands seem to do this , what a racket, yes it should be illegal but it is pretty difficult to prove it is intentional. ( shakes stick)

I guess the moral here is dont replace your 30 year old old top loader with a new machine. Instead , repair it.

Ill try to repair this one because Im up for the challenge, but I think I'll sell it if I am successful, and then keep the old standard boring white maytag. 30 years is what they should last for , not 10. This is an environmental disaster if you think how many machines are out there are made like this. the whole machine often just gets tossed in the dump due to this issue , how wasteful.

I have heard said that in Europe they passed a law that manufacturers have to provide parts within a certain time limit and supply them at a reasonable amount for something like 10 years to protect the consumer and the environment. This seems like a way to comply with that but still use planned obsolescence to keep the sales volume up. sure you can buy the broken part, good luck changing it though. a few will but most are deterred by the labor costs.

[1918ColonialRevival]

The Samsung is scrap metal. I found that out the hard way!

The washer we use is an early '90s Speed Queen that I picked up at an auction of a laundromat that was closing down. Paid $25 for it. Spent $10 on a new belt and bypassed the coin mech and it was as good as new. The good thing is Speed Queen didn't change their designs much for a couple of decades and parts are easy to come by.

[phil]

yesterday I read a long thread about a class action lawsuit that was filed against samsung for the issue of the spider failing due to well known and documented issues with the pot metal spider quickly self destructing after people spent a lot on the machines. It seemed to end and I think it must have been settled out of court. I also read through some appliance repair forum posts and found a lot of detail about similar machines of other brands with the issue. my brother bought a samsung stove and he says they will need to replace that because the elements can't be adjusted to simmer , they go from off to full boiling and also the convection oven heats very unevenly. He bought it new and it sure didn't fare well. He also had his washer apart a number of times and changed bearings which failed soon after.
I spoke to a workmate yesterday that bought a new stove and it is plagued with issues of the heat elements in the oven making bad contact and replacing the connectors did not solve his issue.

I might try to fix the samsuung just for fun, but I sure wont part with the 30 year old maytag I have. Im considering making my own spider from some other metal.
I struggled with the funny nut that holds the drum on the maytag but I got through that so I should just have to assemble, maybe spend a little renewing old hoses and such. just waiting for the part now.

the old machines had a loose fitting top so they weren't sealed, the new ones seal almost air tight and contain moisture that makes them stink but also causes them to fall apart more quickly so it is very important to leave the door open. a lot of the design flaws are intentional and the consumer really has little choice in the matter. Proving that legally is difficult because they will say it is out of warranty or that you used the wrong soap or some such BS

having a cleaning cycle for a washing machine seems so ridiculous. we never needed a PCB before but try to find a new machine with no PCB now. a lot of them fail that way. a stove also does not need a PCB to function and that was proved by generations of ones that never had one. same with dishwashers. old ones had a timer but no PCB.

some very expensive and unreliable new machines out there. If you are in the market for anything new I'd definitely do ample research before dropping any big bills on this modern stuff, starting with the appliance repair forums. Some of the makers are definitely profiting and using some unsavory tactics because they know about the failure rates. Hopefully legislation will one day prevent that practice but for now it's a lot for the garbage dump to swallow and terrible for our environment when you consider the number of them out there. Buyer beware.

[phil]

I fixed my old maytag. the seals in the bottom of the drum failed. But of an issue getting things unscrewed but i got it going in the end so that fire is out and we can do laundry. That giant Samsung is a different story.

[phil]

so the Maytag ran for a little while , then leaked again beacuse it needed a bearing below the bin. I took it apart again and tried to get the part but it seems it's difficult to obtain. It looks like a rubber boot with a brass tube inside that and an aluminum tube inside that..It basically acts as a bearing and stops the lower part of the drum from shaking around.
I checked with a local appliance dealer, he said fix the samsung instead, that makes more sense. He said that old one is obsolete. I think I can get parts but it's a wait to order them online. I broke the left hand thread nut and it comes as a package with the tub seal which I already changed. Its basically hard to get parts for, but probably not impossible..

So I bought the spider from another supplier. I then took apart the samsung I picked up for free. sure enough the spider assembly was totally destroyed by a combination of the detergent scum and an electrolytic reaction between the stainless steel drum and the pot metal spider.

the spider was totally crumbled to dust. planned obsolescence. The machine is designed for this to happen over 10 years or so, some go longer , some half of that. I bought a new spider but have to replace the bolts too as they were corroded in and broke.

I'm ordering the bolts and the tub seal and there is an oil seal, I guess it was about $180 for the spider and about 80 for the bolts, oil seal and tub seal. . (Canadian)
Overall it's not so bad I guess, but the whole thing has to come completely apart to get to the spider. the youtube videos help. I got it disassembled now.

I'm thinking about running a little hose with a shutoff into the area of the spider to wash it, that might make it last longer. it seems part of the issue is the electrolytic reaction but also the stuff around it gloms on and it sort of turns the whole thing into a battery which sits there and eats itself up. If it's clean and or dry , it helps. It seems like the area never gets cleaned but it is immersed in the wash water, so if I can add a hose I could just open the valve and that might rinse the thing off.

The lid isnt; hard to get off then you can see the big white plastic bin. I thought of making a big holle in the bin to view the spider or to wash it and put a rubber plug in the hole, that way the spider could be viewed and maybe cleaned without disassembly.

I thought of various ways to make it from better metal but I better not get fancy because I need the thing to work.

the electrolytic reaction happens because the metals have different electrical reactivity levels. It basically creates a charge like a science experiment. I thought it over and considered putting a few wraps of electrical wire around the drum with a magnet near the coil. that would work like a generator and in theory, if I could apply a reverse current it could prevent the reaction but that's probably just getting too fancy. another way to prevent it might be to shave off the spider and put insulators between that and the drum and then use plastic bolts. if the two aren't electrically connected that would help.

It seems like Samsung and the competitors all follow the same ideas so I'd be hesitant to buy any washer with a stainless steel drum used and if you buy new dont expect it to last long. evidently using certain detergents and there is some sort of cleaning cycle. Yes that's right there is a cleaning cycle for the washing machine , how silly! Some say that if you use bleach at least sometimes that sort of kills the bacterial sludge that builds around the spider and eats it.

If you read about it all, there were lawsuits, maybe a US recall , but not recognized in Canada, and other things but it seems like Samsung and maybe others are making a lot of money selling these machines over and over and the appliance places get good at changing the spiders quickly and they do repair them but what a racket. the little bits of destroyed pot metal also enter the pump so sometimes they die of a dead pump but still need the spider replaced.

So that's off topic but I dont assume everyone has a vintage washer. I did see three machines with round bins and rollers to squeeze out the water but I checked with upper management and I didn't get buy in on reverting back to that sort of machine.

[phil]

thought I'd share a photo of the spider from the Samsung.
It's completely destroyed from the known issue with the pot metal but I doubt new ones are any different.

Im thinking of trying to reroute some of the fill water through little hoses so it can squirt the side of the spider that faces the back of the bin to clean the gunk out of the pockets in the casting. the bio material from laundry soap builds in there and turns to a gelly like substance and that speeds the reaction between the stainless drum and the pot metal spider.
the bearings seem standard but they are cheapo made in china ones, so Ill put in bearings with rubber seals from a local supplier, SKF or NSK ones.