Question for the plasterers on here ... painting options?

[kelt65]

So, I'm having a plasterer skim some of my rooms. I noticed the original skim coat, where it has never been painted or otherwise molested, was very polished and nice looking. It feels like polished stone, it really does. I assume this was done with a trowel. Is it hard to get it like that? I would never want to put paint on that, really. It is too nice, and I'd like my walls like that! I can see there's lots of other things one can do, from tinting the plaster itself to using something like milk paint or even watercolor paint or limewash to make it look "stained" rather than have a coat of material on it. Of course there's drawbacks, like matching future repainrs to the color, but if I'm strict about how I mix it I think I can manage with that.

What other paint or coloring options are there? I'm not sure what any of them really look like. I guess tinting would be best, but how much of a pain is that to deal with for the plasterer? I assume you can only use earth pigments, or what? If you wanted to use oxide pigments, would you have to add some kind of binder?

Would something like watercolor paint work? I mean like the calcite watercolor paint you buy at art stores. That is what frescos are, after all. But doesn't that have to be applied before the plaster is dry? Then there is limewash ... that doesn't add any texture, does it?

What's the difference between lime and gypsum plaster in terms of this? From what I can see, only lime plaster takes watercolor or limewash ... I forgot to ask him which he intended to use. But then, those who work with lime add gypsum to it, don't they? So confusing! Isn't lime plaster rarely used these days?

I pretty sure my existing walls are gypsum. There is no hair binder in the scratch coat at all. There's no brown coat, just a skim coat, and it feels very hard to the touch but gouges very readily with a metal scraper or knife. But then, on the masonry chimney breasts, what is it? I thought gypsum could not be applied to masonry ...

[lovesickest]

I don't know much about the chemistry of various plasters, but I do know the very smooth surface is created using the plaster trowel (terminology ?) with hardly any plaster but more water to really smooth and polish it.

There are various pigments that could be added to the plaster to colour it - but then I think you will get venetian plaster. An old school plasterer may be able to answer your questions, but a person who does specialty wall finishes may also be a good source of reliable information ? My concern with a watercolor or tempera type pigment is that both are water soluble, and I don't know if adding them to plaster would stabilize them - or if you would get walls that any speck of water would mark and streak on - plus rub off color on your hands ? Think of rubbing your hands on those hockey pucks of children's paint for example ?

[phil]

I had some walls with that it was like that it was like plaster with a pigment, very durable finish. but my walls had no insulation and after striping the walls I broke the plaster down, drywalled and insulated. I had other rooms with calcimine paint and if I mopped those walls the color kept coming off. I restored the plaster in one bedroom but it is much hotter in summer and cooler in winter and noisier, I wont' do any more exterior walls without insulation,which does mean breaking the plaster. when i was all done I had perfect walls in both rooms but I much prefer being in the insulated room. there is no way I'd do more work on any outside walls without removing the plaster to insulate unless you can get it from the outside but mine has original shingles and they do show. sometimes it is a trade off but I'd prefer an insulated room to one with plaster and no insulation. It is a trade off.
I read that calcimine paint was used when they wanted to plaster and then paint because normal paint would flake off until the plaster had cured 6 months or so. I wonder if you could have the same problem today if you do fresh plaster or a skim coat using plaster.. You could look into some info about the people who do concrete countertops, they put all kinds of pigments and stuff into the cement and maybe some of those would be appropriate. mine was also hairless plaster. the color was pale green. i did get the wallpaper off without damaging that "paint" and at one point thought gee its neat but it still needed some touch ups, if you catch the edges of the scraper it does come off but it is very hard, it wasn't paint it was a die in the plaster.
neat technique, but I wouldn't choose to try to recreate it as you say it will only be there for a period of time and then someone will paint the wall anyway. it would be hard to touch up even a hole from a picture.
it was put on after the wallpaper around the top edges of the walls just for about 2 inches below the ceiling. in that area it had no green finish on the plaster.
Phil

[kelt65]

I don't know much about the chemistry of various plasters, but I do know the very smooth surface is created using the plaster trowel (terminology ?) with hardly any plaster but more water to really smooth and polish it.

There are various pigments that could be added to the plaster to colour it - but then I think you will get venetian plaster. An old school plasterer may be able to answer your questions, but a person who does specialty wall finishes may also be a good source of reliable information ? My concern with a watercolor or tempera type pigment is that both are water soluble, and I don't know if adding them to plaster would stabilize them - or if you would get walls that any speck of water would mark and streak on - plus rub off color on your hands ? Think of rubbing your hands on those hockey pucks of children's paint for example ?

Well, Venetian plaster involves both marble dust and pigment. Just pigment is tinting, I think.

[kelt65]

I had some walls with that it was like that it was like plaster with a pigment, very durable finish. but my walls had no insulation and after striping the walls I broke the plaster down, drywalled and insulated. I had other rooms with calcimine paint and if I mopped those walls the color kept coming off. I restored the plaster in one bedroom but it is much hotter in summer and cooler in winter and noisier, I wont' do any more exterior walls without insulation,which does mean breaking the plaster. when i was all done I had perfect walls in both rooms but I much prefer being in the insulated room. there is no way I'd do more work on any outside walls without removing the plaster to insulate unless you can get it from the outside but mine has original shingles and they do show. sometimes it is a trade off but I'd prefer an insulated room to one with plaster and no insulation. It is a trade off.
I read that calcimine paint was used when they wanted to plaster and then paint because normal paint would flake off until the plaster had cured 6 months or so. I wonder if you could have the same problem today if you do fresh plaster or a skim coat using plaster.. You could look into some info about the people who do concrete countertops, they put all kinds of pigments and stuff into the cement and maybe some of those would be appropriate. mine was also hairless plaster. the color was pale green. i did get the wallpaper off without damaging that "paint" and at one point thought gee its neat but it still needed some touch ups, if you catch the edges of the scraper it does come off but it is very hard, it wasn't paint it was a die in the plaster.
neat technique, but I wouldn't choose to try to recreate it as you say it will only be there for a period of time and then someone will paint the wall anyway. it would be hard to touch up even a hole from a picture.
it was put on after the wallpaper around the top edges of the walls just for about 2 inches below the ceiling. in that area it had no green finish on the plaster.
Phil

Wow. I would definitely go from the exterior to insulate the walls. I would never rip plaster off the walls just to insulate that is just unimaginable to me. In any case my home has no vapor barrier so wall insulation choices are very limited. But it seems to me pulling off a few siding pieces is an easier fix than making huge interior holes every 16" or going through the unbelievable mess of ripping out an irreplacable three coat wall, and replacing it with what is essentially junk that belongs in a landfill.

[lovesickest]

http://www.earthpigments.com/large-projects/

http://www.earthpigments.com/lime-plasters-and-renders/

http://www.earthpigments.com/tinting-gy ... -pigments/

[phil]

in some homes the siding might not be good in mine it is 100 year old shingles and you couldn't reproduce the look. It only takes a day to remove the old lath and plaster and then you are down to bare studs and the process of insulating and vapor barrier and re-sheeting goes pretty fast. Much easier than trying to fix up old cracked plaster. the finished look is the same, they are just painted walls. They would have used drywall back in the day if they had it. Cosmetic features I wouldn't touch but in this day and age to forfeit having insulation in your walls to have the cold hard feel of plaster doesn't make sense unless it is really a museum or a building with very high historical importance. Drywall doesn't fail unless it isn't properly screwed on or something or it is in a wet environment, lasts a lifetime, easy to fix if there are ever issues I would equate fixing old plaster to trying to replace lead drainpipe and using old lead instead of PVC. You could completely rewire a house with new knob and tube wiring with no grounded outlets and make it meet code but it wouldn't be practical in my opinion. It is entirely different if you had a whole room with a little cracking issues and you wanted to fix without much labor. maybe some houses had a lot of character to the walls with lots of compound curves and archways and things but mine is just straight and square, craftsman style. a typical bungalow not a Victorian mansion with lots of round rooms and curved archways. Even those can be drywalled quite easily. I guess you just have to look at the end result you want. I did go the work of restoring the plaster in one bedroom and when I show people through i make a point of showing them the plaster and then the drywalled room. You know what I find no one really cares about that nor is there any visible difference. Now windows and flooring and wood trim is different because it is visible. that has impact but the painted walls look the same. Anyway that is my opinion and it may differ from someone elses. Thats ok. I do respect the variety of viewpoints here and I hope my opinion being different doesn't come off as insulting.
Phil

[kelt65]

Anyway that is my opinion and it may differ from someone elses. Thats ok. I do respect the variety of viewpoints here and I hope my opinion being different doesn't come off as insulting.
Phil

No I apologize I was being too harsh and rude in my last message.

HOWEVER, wow, no I cannot see how you think they are even comparable in feel or look. I guess with 50 different paint jobs on it over 75 years I guess you can't, except that it might feel stronger. But unpainted plaster has a look and feel that is just not reproducible by drywall. Even the thickest (5/8") drywall feels thin and cheap to me and I feel like it just cheapens the whole house. There's a reason drywall gets textured so often - it feels insubstantial. I think people have correct instincts, at least, for wanting to put texture on it. And I just don't think it's so important to insulate the walls. But then there are people who harp on things I just do not understand, like insisting on original flooring even if it's drafty and termite damaged and falling apart, or those who freak out about painting any wood.

[bfarwell]

I guarantee: You give it enough time, bad repair, and layers of paint, and not only is plaster indistinguishable from drywall, it's indistinguishable from plywood. I'm staring at that particular type of plaster right now, and it looks ghastly.

[kelt65]

I guarantee: You give it enough time, bad repair, and layers of paint, and not only is plaster indistinguishable from drywall, it's indistinguishable from plywood. I'm staring at that particular type of plaster right now, and it looks ghastly.

You can still skim over the whole thing