it made me kind of rethink why we always seem to install them with the ground pin down. I think it's perfectly legal either way but it seems to be the standard. If the ground pin were up it would perhaps be safer. It just looks weird.
I got called on installing the stove plug in the wrong orientation. the inspector did care about that one.
I noticed in Italy they seem to like to install the switches the other way. usually down is off and up is on here but there they seemed to usually have it reversed. at least they drive on the right side of the road lol..
Identify my floors!
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Texas_Ranger
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Re: Identify my floors!
If you enjoy 20-page flame wars, go to some electrical forums and start a thread "Ground up or down?" 
I've seen that happen and it was a lot of fun! The hard facts are that neither the NEC nor the CEC specify anything so it's down to local practice. Apparently ground down is more common in homes (because it makes the sockets look like faces) and up is more common in commercial buildings because people are worried about accidents and care less about aesthetics. I wouldn't consider that orientation much safer though because you could still get a live/earth short, although not a live/neutral. At least that's a 50/50 chance that nothing happens.
The safer option would be requiring all new plugs to have partly sleeved prongs. I think Australian plugs have the same prong dimensions but partially sleeved prongs. That would have the nice side effect of eliminating the horrible cheap plugs with folded brass prongs.
AFAIK there are few countries except for the US and UK that actually specify the orientation of light switches so again that's more like common practice rather than regulations. In Austria it's more like "Well, at least try to have all switches in one house oriented the same way!". And then there are latching switches that feel like a pushbutton (you push them in and they come back out pushed by a spring) but actually are regular on/off switches. They never change their position so there's no "up=on" or "down=on". These are advertised to OCD folks who can't stand having the rockers in different positions.
I've seen that happen and it was a lot of fun! The hard facts are that neither the NEC nor the CEC specify anything so it's down to local practice. Apparently ground down is more common in homes (because it makes the sockets look like faces) and up is more common in commercial buildings because people are worried about accidents and care less about aesthetics. I wouldn't consider that orientation much safer though because you could still get a live/earth short, although not a live/neutral. At least that's a 50/50 chance that nothing happens.
The safer option would be requiring all new plugs to have partly sleeved prongs. I think Australian plugs have the same prong dimensions but partially sleeved prongs. That would have the nice side effect of eliminating the horrible cheap plugs with folded brass prongs.
AFAIK there are few countries except for the US and UK that actually specify the orientation of light switches so again that's more like common practice rather than regulations. In Austria it's more like "Well, at least try to have all switches in one house oriented the same way!". And then there are latching switches that feel like a pushbutton (you push them in and they come back out pushed by a spring) but actually are regular on/off switches. They never change their position so there's no "up=on" or "down=on". These are advertised to OCD folks who can't stand having the rockers in different positions.
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phil
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Re: Identify my floors!
almost any outlet has the writing is right way up reading with the ground pin down which I take as a gentle nudge from the suppliers to install them that way. Ive also noticed "top" stamped in most light switches. Here I seldom see them installed ground pin up. I can see how it would make for a heated discussion on the electrical forums.
I brought the subject up with an Italian in Rome while visiting and he pointed out that unlike here most of our buildings theirs are so old and have these two foot thick walls made of rock and stone. They never were intended for wiring and everything is run in after the buildings were built so that made for a real muddle when you go to work on them. I got the feeling it wasn't just the hardware but perhaps voltage and frequency changes over time as well.
I don't think I 'd want to wire all my household outlets to 220 if I had the choice.
I ran into a kind of interesting dilemma fixing power tools. No where can I find two prong plugs that are polarized ( one pin bigger than the other) and made for round wire. I found some for lamp cord but to replace cords on most of the saws and things I need to replace the whole cord. I had a rash of bad ones from Makita. the prongs kept snapping off and I thought it was misuse until I started seeing almost every one fail. It was an issue with the prongs being too necked down right as the prong entered the molded plug. It didn't seem right to install grounded plugs since they aren't grounded tools, they have plastic cases usually. If I remove the ground prong from 3 prong plugs they aren't polarized as the ground pin sets the orientation. The tools and that style of plug are really common but no where could I find the plugs to replace them. I tried several electrical distributors.
the dewalt ones are the worst. they use cords that plug into the tool with a proprietary connector which almost forces you to buy a new cord from them unless you want to splice it. I started fixing lots of those and found the parts took forever to come from china so I had tools all over waiting for months for various parts. The delays seem to come from the distributors amassing orders to save shipping costs.
anyway i hope I haven't' side tracked the original thread too much.. I kind of got carried off...
Phil
I brought the subject up with an Italian in Rome while visiting and he pointed out that unlike here most of our buildings theirs are so old and have these two foot thick walls made of rock and stone. They never were intended for wiring and everything is run in after the buildings were built so that made for a real muddle when you go to work on them. I got the feeling it wasn't just the hardware but perhaps voltage and frequency changes over time as well.
I don't think I 'd want to wire all my household outlets to 220 if I had the choice.
I ran into a kind of interesting dilemma fixing power tools. No where can I find two prong plugs that are polarized ( one pin bigger than the other) and made for round wire. I found some for lamp cord but to replace cords on most of the saws and things I need to replace the whole cord. I had a rash of bad ones from Makita. the prongs kept snapping off and I thought it was misuse until I started seeing almost every one fail. It was an issue with the prongs being too necked down right as the prong entered the molded plug. It didn't seem right to install grounded plugs since they aren't grounded tools, they have plastic cases usually. If I remove the ground prong from 3 prong plugs they aren't polarized as the ground pin sets the orientation. The tools and that style of plug are really common but no where could I find the plugs to replace them. I tried several electrical distributors.
the dewalt ones are the worst. they use cords that plug into the tool with a proprietary connector which almost forces you to buy a new cord from them unless you want to splice it. I started fixing lots of those and found the parts took forever to come from china so I had tools all over waiting for months for various parts. The delays seem to come from the distributors amassing orders to save shipping costs.
anyway i hope I haven't' side tracked the original thread too much.. I kind of got carried off...
Phil
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Texas_Ranger
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Re: Identify my floors!
220 isn't particularly dangerous compared to 120, anything over 65 V AC is considered fatal. The current any given load draws at 220 V is only half the current at 120 V (roughly) so the fire risk from bad connections is slightly smaller at higher voltages.
Old-time electrical was a mess of voltages and frequencies not only in Europe, there were DC and 25 Hz AC systems in the US too. In fact some ancient DC systems are still in operation in larger cities. I think NYC Con Ed only stopped supplying DC less than ten years ago and there are still customers that have huge rectifiers!
Old-time electrical was a mess of voltages and frequencies not only in Europe, there were DC and 25 Hz AC systems in the US too. In fact some ancient DC systems are still in operation in larger cities. I think NYC Con Ed only stopped supplying DC less than ten years ago and there are still customers that have huge rectifiers!
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phil
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Re: Identify my floors!
I see a lot of radios that have giant transformers rated for 25 hz. they seemed to disapear in around 1936 or so.
even after that date there were many "farm radios" which were designed to run on batteries. I even have a zenith cube radio that has huge red and black leads , designed to run on 6VDC. I also have a giant rectifier tube , it is about 6 inches tall maybe 4 inches wide. I assume it was perhaps from something like you describe or maybe an early battery charger.
even after that date there were many "farm radios" which were designed to run on batteries. I even have a zenith cube radio that has huge red and black leads , designed to run on 6VDC. I also have a giant rectifier tube , it is about 6 inches tall maybe 4 inches wide. I assume it was perhaps from something like you describe or maybe an early battery charger.
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Neighmond
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Re: Identify my floors!
Here the up=on comes from the earliest days of electrical wiring.....if a knife switch is mounted in the up=on position and the handle is acted upon by gravity the natural result is an open circuit. Mounted the opposite way, a handle could fall to the closed position.
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phil
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Re: Identify my floors!
that makes a lot of sense.
Re: Identify my floors!
That does make a lot of sense. I have no idea why it is reversed int he UK though. But then I also don't understand why it is customary to have the cold faucet on the left their and the right here either.
Mick...
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Texas_Ranger
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Re: Identify my floors!
I've never seen cold on the left, not even in the UK! That seems to be one of the very few world standards.
Germany tends to favour down = on with light switches but the main reasoning is dust buildup on the top side of the rocker.
Germany tends to favour down = on with light switches but the main reasoning is dust buildup on the top side of the rocker.
Re: Identify my floors!
Texas_Ranger wrote:I've never seen cold on the left, not even in the UK! That seems to be one of the very few world standards.
Germany tends to favour down = on with light switches but the main reasoning is dust buildup on the top side of the rocker.
Interesting, every house I ever lived in (that I can recall) in the UK had hot on the right, cold on the left. I remember when I moved to the US I kept using the wrong faucet for quite a while. A quick google came up with this: http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/blog/hot-ba ... -or-right/
I also found other debates where people were claiming that cold on the left was more prevalent in the North (though I always lived in the South)... very curious
Mick...