DIY Chimney Liner a Good Idea?

[SouthernLady]

So... Quite a few signs of nature are telling me we might have a rough winter. All my kieffer pears from my 130-year-old pear tree disappeared overnight, I doubt I even have two dozen black walnuts thanks to the squirrels, the leaves on my persimmon trees have already dropped completely off, and I saw a wooly worm last weekend--all black. That means I really, REALLY need an alternative heat source in case our power goes out. Right now, I have nothing but quilts...

I have seen where you can order stainless steel chimney liner kits online. It looks like I can get a kit for a chimney for around $1,000, which is a LOT better than the $4,000-per-chimney price tag companies in the area have given me... I have a friend who is a contractor, and I have been thinking about asking him to help me install the liner with the aide of a cherry picker lift.

I want to at least have my dining room fireplace in working order before Christmas, if possible, as it will heat the kitchen and old bathroom.

One of the professional chimney companies said they think they can repair the fireplaces themselves for a couple hundred dollars max, which I don't see as being a problem. I just can't see paying $4,000 per chimney liner install!

For those of you experienced or knowledgeable about fireplaces and chimneys, would you think it feasible for me to order my own kit and install it? I am a bit nervous about it, and wanted to see what y'all think.


The two tallest chimneys are in need of being lined. The little one was for the wood cook stove in the kitchen, which is where my electric cook stove now sits.


The fireplaces had gas logs installed. The lines will need to be removed and new ash dump doors installed since the pipes go through the old doors.

[Mick_VT]

The hardest bit would likely be connecting it correctly at the bottom end, but you could leave that for the chimney guys to do when they repair the fireplace - just leave it long.

If it were me I would likely put wood stoves into the fireplaces, generally a bit safer, and definitely pump out a ton more heat. They would be easier to hook up too ( no fireplace restoration needed), but then you do have the cost of the stove itself

[phil]

why do you need a liner? is it crumbling inside ? or maybe you just think you need a liner?
the wood stoves that sit outside the fireplace do emit a lot more heat because they can radiate the heat from their sides. On the other hand if you have an airtight heater and you tend to close down the draft to make it burn all night then you can create a situation where there is a lot more creosote. the free burning fireplace doesn't have those issues as you can't choke it back. a good hot fire helps to clean the chimney. the species you burn has a lot to do with it as well.

with mine I had it cleaned two years ago. It didn't seem to have a lot of creosote but I hadn't run it nearly as much as I did last year. I was actually a bit afraid to use it until I had a chimney sweep look at it and yea it has a couple of lose bricks right at the back of the firebox but I got the impression it's actually safe and fine to use as it were intended.

i think it has a lot to do with what you burn. If you can stay away from pine and other softwoods and try to burn cherry and fir and the other better fuels. I just watch craigslist for free firewood and just try to stay away from softwoods, and try to get it at least a year before burning it.

the separate enclosed type of fireplaces do emit a lot of heat, You also need to have the legal clearances around it so they can take up a lot more room. the fireplace is already there.. If you plan to get a heater like that I'd check with fire insurance, you might find they are ok with a brick furnace but they might not like the enclosed metal ones.

Phil

[SouthernLady]

Mick, thank you for the advice to get the pros to finish the installation. I will definitely look into that.

I will have a wood stove in that back section (original carriage house/garage, now connected to house), but I really would love to leave the fireplaces as they originally were, without a wood stove in them. They do certainly kick out a lot more heat! My grandparents' 1790s house was heated entirely by two wood stoves. The old rock fireplace was big, but it wasn't safe to use anymore.

Phil, I have had my chimneys inspected by three companies, and they all said the inside of the chimneys were too unsafe to attempt a fire without being lined. The one in the dining room alone has had multiple chimney fires which has cracked eight brick that now need replacing. Even the great-granddaughter told me she would not dare attempt a fire in the chimneys for fear of a crack starting a fire.

My chimneys were rebuilt in the 1920s when the daughter remodeled the house. The original portion of the chimneys exist from ground level down to the cellar. Those are going to be the big thing to keep me from having an opportunity of getting on the NRHP, says the 1980s report. Thank you, Lettie McCuiston Clinard! Ideally, I would love to rebuild the chimneys as they should be for the period, but that'd probably cost a lot more than I would be able to deal with.

[GibsonGM]

On the other hand if you have an airtight heater and you tend to close down the draft to make it burn all night then you can create a situation where there is a lot more creosote. the free burning fireplace doesn't have those issues as you can't choke it back. a good hot fire helps to clean the chimney. the species you burn has a lot to do with it as well.
Phil

A little OT, but this is a great point, and for the sake of completeness should be looked at. With older 'airtight' stoves (think of an old Ashley...), you DO get a lot of creosote if you trade off burn heat for longevity. It is very hard to get enough air in for complete combustion, and also stretch out your burn. People tend towards the 'closed' side. This is where people go wrong, as well as using not completely dried wood, which will also not burn hot and create creosote, which forms at stack temperatures of <300F.

However, with the newer "EPA" stoves such as Jotul makes, you have a secondary burn chamber. This chamber is never closed down to outside air...you get the stove quite hot, with a big load of wood, and shut down "your" part. The gases enter the secondary chamber before escaping, where they are burned prior to exhaust. This is pretty clean, and actually extracts more BTUs from the outgoing gasses...I did this every single night last winter, and have <2 paint cans of creosote 'grit' this year. Note that these are NOT catalytic stoves, which IME stink.

I didn't believe 'closed, long burn, decent heat, little 'sote' operation was possible either, but the new generation stoves achieve it. Of course there is no substitute for checking your chimney, though!! My installation is safe and to code, and is 100% reversible should someone wish to do so someday.

[Casey]

An uninsulated (single wall) stainless flexy liner is going to be a creosote trap. Smooth insulated pipe is a lot better.

[Mick_VT]

An uninsulated (single wall) stainless flexy liner is going to be a creosote trap. Smooth insulated pipe is a lot better.

I have not had any trouble with mine, even up here in the frozen North and on an exterior chimney. Personally I would not worry, especially on an open fireplace. Just get it swept each year

[GibsonGM]

Same here, same latitude as Mick...routinely -20. The secret to clean burning is keeping a fire hot and use only dry wood. Less danger of 'sote from a fireplace, too...no way to squeeze down the air.

Make sure to have it cleaned yearly and you should be all set.

[historicalwork]

Just catching up on the forum after a while - I forgot how much I missed reading posts about other old house projects. It reminds me about how many I have to do! But, on the chimney, when we moved in a few years ago our foursquare had two chimneys - one previously serving the kitchen (long ago abandoned) and one serving the fireplace and the boiler. I really wanted either a fireplace or a wood stove.

Had it not been for the limited space in the room (the hearth would extend out a bit too far) and the fact that the configuration of the house would have made heat distribution a bit problematic (we didn't want to get blown out of the room to heat other areas), I would have done the wood stove. The new stoves are nice and with a glass front you still get the fire view. Plus, lining for a wood stove would have been cheaper.

The flue for the fireplace was not lined - just brick and mortar. And, as has been stated, the worry is in the event of a chimney fire, wood in the house structure could be exposed if mortar is missing in the bricks within the flue. And there is that worry of carbon monoxide. So, either way, I knew lining made sense. And we looked at it more of an investment - if we sold we'd be selling a 1905 house with a working fireplace and original hearth and mantel. And at about $3500, we had to put some other projets on hold.

As far as doing it ourselves, I hate not being able to do my own work. But, our chimney is 30+ feet high with 10 feet or so above the hipped roof line. And dealing with a 8" liner and trying to pack it properly was something I felt was not possible on my own. And while I'm confident in myself - and I know having a contractor doesn't always meant it's right - I did want to feel it was done professionally given we're talking about a fire place.

Ours is a typical foursquare fireplace - somewhat shallow firebox with a metal backing. It does give out some heat. But the fact is it's more for fun than heating - they aren't energy efficient. No doubt a wood stove would have been better for heating and energy efficiency. And I would add that our 9"x13" flue went to a round 8" flue when lined. And I noticed the difference because now the draft dynamics change. It took me a little while to learn to be more careful about starting the fire and not overloading it.

I still think about the wood stove option and would do it if the house were different - but having the fireplace going on Thanksgiving, Christmas or a cold night can't be replaced...

[Kmarissa]

All of you with lovely fireplaces are making me so jealous. A fireplace is about the only item on our househunting "must-have" list that we gave up when we bought our home. Sigh. Maybe someday I can retrofit one of those zero-clearance units in somewhere...