Does anyone have experience with making their own interior storm windows? I'm interested in building a prototype for my ca. 1910 bungalow, either metal or wood frame. I've seen a few tutorials on YouTube, which mostly involve using acrylic glass or vinyl film. I figured this would be a better forum for ideas/suggestions/experiences.
Thanks for any assistance!
Interior Storm Windows
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Texas_Ranger
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Re: Interior Storm Windows
I'd be tempted to use real glass and put them on hinges so you can leave them in place year-round while still being able to open your windows all the way. Acrylic is nice to work with but more expensive than glass and it scratches incredibly easily.
Re: Interior Storm Windows
compare your material costs to getting some made. The ones like www.stormwindows.com sells are made extremely well and work vastly better than the exterior storms they replaced on my house
Mick...
Re: Interior Storm Windows
I made them last year, and they worked absolutely fantastic!!! ZERO drafts around my single-hung windows.
I used strapping to make the frames (I should say, rough cut 5/4x2", not the cheap 1/2" strapping we see commonly), applied 'window film kit' shrink wrap, and used backer rod (split in half) to form gaskets. They required a drywall screw in each corner to keep air pressure from popping them out, put it that way.
When done for the season, they come out fast and store away easily, as they are very light. I highly recommend anyone try them with their old sash. Plus, no condensation on your nice old windows...
Link to instructions in here:
http://saveamericaswindows.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5208
I used strapping to make the frames (I should say, rough cut 5/4x2", not the cheap 1/2" strapping we see commonly), applied 'window film kit' shrink wrap, and used backer rod (split in half) to form gaskets. They required a drywall screw in each corner to keep air pressure from popping them out, put it that way.
When done for the season, they come out fast and store away easily, as they are very light. I highly recommend anyone try them with their old sash. Plus, no condensation on your nice old windows...
Link to instructions in here:
http://saveamericaswindows.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5208
Re: Interior Storm Windows
we sometimes make temporary panels when we remove sash where there is no storm window...we use unpainted (you can prime and paint if you wish, ours are used in different houses) poplar ripped to 2" (3/4" x 2") and a pocket jig made by kreg https://www.kregtool.com/store/c13/kreg ... jigreg-r3/ ....once you have the plastic cut and the wood ready, it only takes about 15 minutes for each panel...staple plastic to the side with just a few staples then staple foam (not the foam typically made for around windows, it doesn't last--backer rod is a good choice) around the perimeter--these staple will hold the foam and plastic in place...for small windows, use just two stiles (vertical) and two rails (horizontal); for larger windows, use a piece in the center to line up with the meeting rail...
http://www.strataglass.com/ you can find similar heavy (16 mil) very clear vinyl in hardware stores...
that's what we do here at heartwood window restoration but, as you see, there are many ways to keep the drafts our during cold weather....
...jade
http://www.strataglass.com/ you can find similar heavy (16 mil) very clear vinyl in hardware stores...
that's what we do here at heartwood window restoration but, as you see, there are many ways to keep the drafts our during cold weather....
...jade
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phil
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Re: Interior Storm Windows
if you have a tablesaw you can cut your own mortices and tennons this way. its just nicer and much stronger than using screws.
heres a video as an example. I dont like the way he does it but it gives you the idea.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC3YRR52D_w
in the video he uses a home made jig. I do have the general tennoning jig but I found it actually works fine if I just use a square block of wood behind the stock as a pusher. that keeps the stock plumb to the table. If you aren't experienced and comfortable around the saw then it's probably not a great place to start learning and at first, putting stock over the blade on it's end can feel a bit unusual. If it feels dangerous stop and use a jig.
You need enough ceiling height for the longer pieces. My tablesaw is too heavy to move so I'd like to find a saw I can move outside for certain jobs. for now I'm limited by my ceiling height.
when cutting the mortices what I do is work out the thickness I need and mount two or even three blades in the saw. usually this is a third of the thickness. or so..
To make fine adjustments I put very thin washers made from trimmed down coffee can lids between the blades. When you tighten the blade nut you have to make sure the teeth of each blade are offset so the set of one blade doesn't interfere with the other If you cut the mortices first you can then adjust the number of washers for a perfect fit and then just do them all at once or keep track of the number of washers for future use. anyway so make your stack of blades the thickness you want and you can do each in a single pass through the blade and each will be quick and accurate. check your saw an make sure your blade is at a true 90 degrees. You dont' need a dado set for this , a couple of nice new blades that match are best. if your blades are different sizes it won't work, they must match in diameter.
once you get going you can easily cut enough stock for all your windows and the mortices and tennons will go as fast or faster than using screws. If you are just doing one as a replacement when you work on the sash, that's different as it's temporary.
The tennoning jigs do work but most of them register the wood to one side as they clamp the wood. to make things come out just right you have to pay careful attention to the thickness of the stock and which side you are registering to. If you are finicky you can find you have some natural warpage or difference in thickness of your stock and you have to keep that sorted out to make the stiles and rails meet so they are exactly flush.
if you cut the tennons against the fence and flip them for the second face, keep in mind that you are registering to both sides of your stock so if there is even a slight difference in stock thickness you will see a difference in the thickness of the tennon. if you chose you can register to the same side. this is a minor detail but if you try making mortices this way just make sure your stock thickness is even. basically there are two ways to cut the joints, either by registering to both sides or to the same side. this little detail will make subtle differences to the fit. The difference between a good push fit and a loose sloppy fit is only thousandths.
if you choose to register your cuts to both sides the step created by differences in stock thickness will be centered but it will affect the tightness of the fit. If you register to the same side then the fit will be perfect but you may see a slight step on the side that you don't' register to. If you wish you can do it that way and turn the good side out but it should be a minor difference .
Of course you can cut mortices and tennons in a variety of other ways but this is a very quick and easy way to do it with only a tablesaw. of course you need to be wary and alert about the possible causes of kickback. don't let stock touch the backside of the blade or bind up or yes it'll fly and hurt you. If you are quite experienced around the saw and you use this method you;ll probably also be able to properly assess the risks of kickbacks. It's not a good method for someone without much experience. The jigs make the task safer but once you wrap your head around the part about which side you register to you might find it easier without the jig , and may choose to throw the jig aside and register to both sides instead. you dont' need the jig but it does make it safer.
when you cut the tennons you can do that on end if you like but usually I like the method where I adjust the blade height and register to both sides. Its just a series of cuts to remove the material. having three blades in the saw makes for a lot less passes over the blade as you can cut about 1/4" slots. again there are a variety of ways to approach this step.
you have to be accurate about the length of your stock and watch for any twist in the stock or the squareness of your cuts, or you can end up with something that isn't flat, but twisted. If you wish you can make them all about 1/4 inch too big for the opening and then trim 4 sides down to fit. If you do this you can also compensate if you have any out of squareness in your window openings. trimming like this also makes it so you dont' have to be too finicky about sanding the ends of the mortices or tennons to get it to look right since the final trim cut will take care of that.
Phil
heres a video as an example. I dont like the way he does it but it gives you the idea.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC3YRR52D_w
in the video he uses a home made jig. I do have the general tennoning jig but I found it actually works fine if I just use a square block of wood behind the stock as a pusher. that keeps the stock plumb to the table. If you aren't experienced and comfortable around the saw then it's probably not a great place to start learning and at first, putting stock over the blade on it's end can feel a bit unusual. If it feels dangerous stop and use a jig.
You need enough ceiling height for the longer pieces. My tablesaw is too heavy to move so I'd like to find a saw I can move outside for certain jobs. for now I'm limited by my ceiling height.
when cutting the mortices what I do is work out the thickness I need and mount two or even three blades in the saw. usually this is a third of the thickness. or so..
To make fine adjustments I put very thin washers made from trimmed down coffee can lids between the blades. When you tighten the blade nut you have to make sure the teeth of each blade are offset so the set of one blade doesn't interfere with the other If you cut the mortices first you can then adjust the number of washers for a perfect fit and then just do them all at once or keep track of the number of washers for future use. anyway so make your stack of blades the thickness you want and you can do each in a single pass through the blade and each will be quick and accurate. check your saw an make sure your blade is at a true 90 degrees. You dont' need a dado set for this , a couple of nice new blades that match are best. if your blades are different sizes it won't work, they must match in diameter.
once you get going you can easily cut enough stock for all your windows and the mortices and tennons will go as fast or faster than using screws. If you are just doing one as a replacement when you work on the sash, that's different as it's temporary.
The tennoning jigs do work but most of them register the wood to one side as they clamp the wood. to make things come out just right you have to pay careful attention to the thickness of the stock and which side you are registering to. If you are finicky you can find you have some natural warpage or difference in thickness of your stock and you have to keep that sorted out to make the stiles and rails meet so they are exactly flush.
if you cut the tennons against the fence and flip them for the second face, keep in mind that you are registering to both sides of your stock so if there is even a slight difference in stock thickness you will see a difference in the thickness of the tennon. if you chose you can register to the same side. this is a minor detail but if you try making mortices this way just make sure your stock thickness is even. basically there are two ways to cut the joints, either by registering to both sides or to the same side. this little detail will make subtle differences to the fit. The difference between a good push fit and a loose sloppy fit is only thousandths.
if you choose to register your cuts to both sides the step created by differences in stock thickness will be centered but it will affect the tightness of the fit. If you register to the same side then the fit will be perfect but you may see a slight step on the side that you don't' register to. If you wish you can do it that way and turn the good side out but it should be a minor difference .
Of course you can cut mortices and tennons in a variety of other ways but this is a very quick and easy way to do it with only a tablesaw. of course you need to be wary and alert about the possible causes of kickback. don't let stock touch the backside of the blade or bind up or yes it'll fly and hurt you. If you are quite experienced around the saw and you use this method you;ll probably also be able to properly assess the risks of kickbacks. It's not a good method for someone without much experience. The jigs make the task safer but once you wrap your head around the part about which side you register to you might find it easier without the jig , and may choose to throw the jig aside and register to both sides instead. you dont' need the jig but it does make it safer.
when you cut the tennons you can do that on end if you like but usually I like the method where I adjust the blade height and register to both sides. Its just a series of cuts to remove the material. having three blades in the saw makes for a lot less passes over the blade as you can cut about 1/4" slots. again there are a variety of ways to approach this step.
you have to be accurate about the length of your stock and watch for any twist in the stock or the squareness of your cuts, or you can end up with something that isn't flat, but twisted. If you wish you can make them all about 1/4 inch too big for the opening and then trim 4 sides down to fit. If you do this you can also compensate if you have any out of squareness in your window openings. trimming like this also makes it so you dont' have to be too finicky about sanding the ends of the mortices or tennons to get it to look right since the final trim cut will take care of that.
Phil
Re: Interior Storm Windows
I picked up a delta mortiser and a tenoning jig for table saw for maybe $125 on craigslist. There are often great deals like that. And then I used that to make some screens for my basement windows. So much better and stronger than butt joints.
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phil
- Has many leather bound books
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- Location: Near Vancouver BC
Re: Interior Storm Windows
mine is the general international one. I was disappointed in the quality, especially the fact that the chrome crank handle is actually chromed PLASTIC !! . It works ok but it's just another example of Chinese garbage tooling. I find I seldom use it. It does make the job safer than just using a square block of wood to push with and has the micro adjustment. .
here it is :
http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/3943
the delta one would be better quality. General tools were made in Canada and good quality, but general international makes real garbage. in taiwan. It's not the same company but many are fooled into thinking they are getting general and instead buy general international. General is gone now. so is delta. they may set up a factory in china or somewhere and you may see new delta tools but don't let the name fool you. buying used usually gets you better tools unless you pay the price. I like the SCM stuff but it's pricey.
Phil
here it is :
http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/3943
the delta one would be better quality. General tools were made in Canada and good quality, but general international makes real garbage. in taiwan. It's not the same company but many are fooled into thinking they are getting general and instead buy general international. General is gone now. so is delta. they may set up a factory in china or somewhere and you may see new delta tools but don't let the name fool you. buying used usually gets you better tools unless you pay the price. I like the SCM stuff but it's pricey.
Phil
Re: Interior Storm Windows
Thanks everyone for these great ideas, I have a lot of research to do! I'll be sure to share the results once I get one built...just need to figure out the best way to go. Much appreciated!
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phil
- Has many leather bound books
- Posts: 4616
- Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:11 pm
- Location: Near Vancouver BC
Re: Interior Storm Windows
usually for windows they use a matched set of cutters and you could do that with a shaper or a router or a shaper head mounted on a tablesaw. Often they like to include an "ogee" which kind of frames in the window. the cutters cut the shape nicely and you need the matched pair so the mating joints fit together. If you look closely at your wood windows you'll see.. In making storms I think I'd just do simple square through mortice and tennons and keep it simple but if you want a bit more ornateness the cutters are an option you could look into.
I'd recommend just using cheap pine or whatever you have handy to make a sample of what you want and make some mistakes on the first attempt, then move on to whatever species you want to use for the real job. even making a window a foot square would help. the length of the pieces isn't going to make much difference to your process.
make sure the wood you use is dry. If not it'll probably warp and it's not easy to fit, or fix a window that isn't on a flat plane. also I have noticed that on some of the lightweight tablesaws you can see the blade deflect out of square ( to the table) when you start pushing the wood through, especially on heavy cuts so I found that when doing samples and putting the wood through slowly I didn't see the problem but when I went into higher production and started firing wood through faster, I'd get stuff coming out out of square. if yougo too slow you'll usually burn the wood.
I'm not one to "blame the machine" but learning the limitations of whatever equipment you have available and how to get the best out of what it can do for you takes a bit of practicing and checking for squareness etc. still you can do good work on even a portable contractor style saw, if you do lots then a good used old heavy cast iron cabinet saw is a great investment. use what you have access to and see how it goes.
the blade should be true to the fence. if the cutting edge is a teeny bit closer that wont' be a huge issue but if the cutting edge is further from the fence, watch out. this can trap the blade and cause a kickback so check that. the cheaper the saw , the more trouble you might have moving the fence in teeny increments or keeping the fence square. if it's a cheaper saw then you'll have to pay more attention to this and maybe even use a wood block or something to clamp it from moving on you.
If you wanted you could use the Kreg jig , it will work. It's a good tool for some purposes. you could hide the screws with putty. I don't really like using screws but if it makes it easier you could try a sample and see if you like it. Quality woodworking usually involves only using screws when necessary and not nails, and woodworkers tend to put some pride into not using them, but you have so many options. cutting mortices and tenons can be tricky at first. Once you get the system you like making more will move forward as an orderly system of procedures but the first ones will have you scratching your head or maybe cutting something too short or crooked or something.. par for the course. go into it expecting to make a bit of sawdust and some firewood and don't just start in using exotic wood or feeling like you are going to do everything perfectly on your first attempt and you'll have more fun.
I'd recommend just using cheap pine or whatever you have handy to make a sample of what you want and make some mistakes on the first attempt, then move on to whatever species you want to use for the real job. even making a window a foot square would help. the length of the pieces isn't going to make much difference to your process.
make sure the wood you use is dry. If not it'll probably warp and it's not easy to fit, or fix a window that isn't on a flat plane. also I have noticed that on some of the lightweight tablesaws you can see the blade deflect out of square ( to the table) when you start pushing the wood through, especially on heavy cuts so I found that when doing samples and putting the wood through slowly I didn't see the problem but when I went into higher production and started firing wood through faster, I'd get stuff coming out out of square. if yougo too slow you'll usually burn the wood.
I'm not one to "blame the machine" but learning the limitations of whatever equipment you have available and how to get the best out of what it can do for you takes a bit of practicing and checking for squareness etc. still you can do good work on even a portable contractor style saw, if you do lots then a good used old heavy cast iron cabinet saw is a great investment. use what you have access to and see how it goes.
the blade should be true to the fence. if the cutting edge is a teeny bit closer that wont' be a huge issue but if the cutting edge is further from the fence, watch out. this can trap the blade and cause a kickback so check that. the cheaper the saw , the more trouble you might have moving the fence in teeny increments or keeping the fence square. if it's a cheaper saw then you'll have to pay more attention to this and maybe even use a wood block or something to clamp it from moving on you.
If you wanted you could use the Kreg jig , it will work. It's a good tool for some purposes. you could hide the screws with putty. I don't really like using screws but if it makes it easier you could try a sample and see if you like it. Quality woodworking usually involves only using screws when necessary and not nails, and woodworkers tend to put some pride into not using them, but you have so many options. cutting mortices and tenons can be tricky at first. Once you get the system you like making more will move forward as an orderly system of procedures but the first ones will have you scratching your head or maybe cutting something too short or crooked or something.. par for the course. go into it expecting to make a bit of sawdust and some firewood and don't just start in using exotic wood or feeling like you are going to do everything perfectly on your first attempt and you'll have more fun.