Shellac Application

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Mick_VT
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Re: Shellac Application

Post by Mick_VT »

if its too shiny, a quick application of wax with a scotchbrite gives a smooth satin finish. Another furniture finishing technique :D
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Casey
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Re: Shellac Application

Post by Casey »

Mick_VT wrote:if its too shiny, a quick application of wax with a scotchbrite gives a smooth satin finish. Another furniture finishing technique :D

Be careful, because a brand new green scotchbrite bad is like 120 sandpaper, while a used gray one is safe and scratch-free.
The kind called "synthetic steel wool".
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Mick_VT
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Re: Shellac Application

Post by Mick_VT »

Casey wrote:
Mick_VT wrote:if its too shiny, a quick application of wax with a scotchbrite gives a smooth satin finish. Another furniture finishing technique :D

Be careful, because a brand new green scotchbrite bad is like 120 sandpaper, while a used gray one is safe and scratch-free.
The kind called "synthetic steel wool".
Casey

Good catch - yes I use a white one (same as OOOO)
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Al F. Furnituremaker
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Re: Shellac Application

Post by Al F. Furnituremaker »

For knocking down the gloss of shellac there is a product called Shellac Flatt. It is in liquid form and contains silicon powder. You mix it with your shellac mixture depending on the final sheen you want.

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Re: Shellac Application

Post by Chadzeilenga »

Good to know. How does that work if I were to "touch-up" an area?

I'd have to say having shellac finish on trim and 3 little ones has been great. I just go around and touch-up areas that are scratched etc and it blends right in.
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Re: Shellac Application

Post by Al F. Furnituremaker »

It would be a trial and error method to get the correct gloss match.

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Re: Shellac Application

Post by phil »

rather than topcoating with other products I'd suggest trying to rub out the surface. On lacquer I use wool lube and fine steel wool after an initial rub with sandpaper just to knock off the pips or any blobs or runs dust, hair etc.
here's a good article that describes the use of the wool soap.
this way you dont; need another product, a bottle of wool lube lasts a long time, you need very little of it. and you aren't leaving another product on the surface so if you want to continue finishing you won't have issues with a product getting buried in your finish.

https://www.woodshopnews.com/columns-bl ... -deal-well


If you do a flat surface you can french polish. basically it's just using a pad with shellac/alcohol and rubbing a very thin coating on and letting it harden up and repeating. because you can apply it in extremely thin layers and because of the filling action of rubbing it on it fills the pores, of course the wood must be sanded flat enough to start with to get a high shine. you can use a pore filer first if you want.
when you are padding the finish on the trick is to learn the ratio that works for the concentration or "pound cut" the other part is learning to keep the pad the correct dampness (with alcohol) The material will combine with the underlying coats so if you rub any area too much or if your cloth is too damp it will dissolve too much of the underlying finish. If your cloth dries out to much it will start to grab on and stick. If you don't wait long enough between layers it will also cause the first issue.

I agree this is very difficult to do in details but it will produce a beautiful finish on flats. brushing on may be faster and you can combine the two and brush on a base, then work with that.

shellac isn't a super hard or tough finish so maybe you'd have to go a bit easier on it than you would with lacquer when you are rubbing out the finish, also you dont; want to rub right through to the wood.

I think sometimes people throw the term "plasticky" around and mostly what they are looking at is the sheen.

basicly wood can be finished either by piling a top coat on the surface , or the finish can be rubbed in. rubbing it in leaves less material between you and the wood. the less pigments you have blocking your view of the wood the more beautiful it will look because you can see the ribbon better. some woods have more figure than other woods.

also the shellac darkens with age. If the finish is darkened with age and you are trying to repeat "what they did" remember it is an old finish and you are applying a new finish. It has darkened from age so by adding heavier pigmentation to the topcoat you are mimicking the aged look. I think that's the reason you don't see tonal differences or brush strokes in their finish,, because it wasn't put on so dark , it was lighter and then it aged for many years.

the wood beneath darkens too, but it needs UV exposure to do that so if your top coat is heavily pigmented or if it contains UV inhibitors it will slow the natural darkening process. how much it darkens might depend a lot on the species but my fir floors do change a lot over a few years.

I like poly because it is easy to recoat and it stands up way better. the sheen is determined by the last coat you put down.. Im doing my floors and I put 3 coats of oil with ample dry time. the final coat I sand in with 320 wet with danish oil and then rub it down dry.. that posps the grain. then I will do a coat of gloss poly, and lastly a coat of satin poly as I don't want it to look"plasticy"

after that you can't recombine the way you do with shellac but you can scuff sand and do a new top coat if it wears.. the reason I like this method better is because my floors cant' take another sanding.. so the finish I'm applying isn't going to ever get sanded off, so I'd prefer a really tough finish. in my case not sanding was not an option as the surface was far too damaged. If your floors aren't too bad then refreshing the shellac is probably better. why sand if you don't need to yet? even after sanding my floors will have plenty of "patina" the oil pops the grain but it also sort of pops the damaged areas. i sanded lots but there is only so much wood to sand so it can ony be so perfect. I could have used a stain to hide damage or a darkened topcoat but I just use clear.. the wood will darken quite a bit. what I'm ending up with is a darkness equivalent to areas that were relatively untouched and original. I dont see the need for an added pigment.

I think sometimes what happens is people look at their floor and the tone of it and then sand and it looks so light ! So then they add stains or pigments to the topcoat to try to get where they started and dont' really realize that the wood is going to darken a lot once it sees two years of UV.

I went to Mohawk yesterday to get a second gallon of poly because I decided I needed two. ( I just bought one initially because I thought I had some somewhere) the first can I bought was a satin sheen. I haven't put it down yet but it will be the final coat. the counter guy said I should buy satin but I remember speaking to the older guy there and that guy has a real wealth of knowledge and he told me a few years ago ,, no ,, use gloss for any in between coats, then use the satin for only the topcoat, otherwise you are just burying the blush ( the stuff that disturbs the surface to reduce sheen) between the coats.. I think the old guy had a good point and the younger counter guy didn't have the experience of the older guy. Its a minor difference and both would work but the sheen is only the last coat. the only issue I see is if I miss any spots in the final coat then they will appear glossy.
with shellac if you make a boo boo,, like if you don't like seeing the brush strokes from your pigmented shellac then you can always just wash the finish off and start again. With poly if you screw up it's hard to take off because it's so tough and wont; re-dissolve.. that's an advantage if you spill an alcoholic drink or if your floor gets wet it can take it , it's tough. everything is a trade off.. Poly will wear a long time and not need any maintenance other than cleaning but the shellac may need a re-coat sooner.

Another trick they taught me is that if you want to sand poly before it is really hardened and cured you can but you have to use wet or dry sandpaper wet with mineral spirits ( solvent) at first one might think well I use that to thin the product so won't it redissolve? no it wont; redissolve because the way poly hardens. ( by polymerization) It won't recombine. using the sandpaper wet with the solvent prevents the issue of it balling up on the paper when it hasn't yet cured. if you sand through it can cause issues because the topcoat can get underneath and you'll see a sort of bubbled - lifted line where the two areas meet. A sanding and recoat fixes this but it's best to avoid any sand-through.

Phil

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Re: Shellac Application

Post by mattswabb »

I did a 1.5# cut and used a rag pad on my kitchen. Work fast and apply many coats. With the light cut it wouldn’t show overlap marks as much.

If there were overlap marks I would blend them together with 000 steel wool when dry or try to blend them while wet with the pad.

I’d end up with 8 or 9 coats. I coat every 10-15 minutes. Garnet shellac as well. Then a satin water based poly on top. 3 coats. Came out nice.
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Re: Shellac Application

Post by Corsetière »

I used a round brush from Lowes and have not had any issues with runs or lap marks.

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Re: Shellac Application

Post by nhguy »

A very timely subject, as one of my winter projects is working on our woodwork, great tips. A great help with the learning curve of house restoration, something we're all far too familiar with no doubt. Thanks

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