making flooring into wainscott

[phil]

I had a bunch of used flooring given to me by a friend. It's all the typical 3 1/4" x 3/4 T and G.

I piled it nicely in my basement and started ripping it down. I removed the T and G from about 15 pieces just to get started.

it was 3/4 but with the sanding it has seen, some is only about 5/8 or so.

I thought next I'd try to make it an even thickness by trimming on the tablesaw. i could let my thickness planer do the work but I thought if I could get the bulk off on the tablesaw and get down into the wood it might be easier on the thickness planer blades. Ill try to register the backside to the fence and maybe scrape it a little if it has a bump or something to interfere with it being flat enough. I figure if I can take a lot of the varnish off on the tablesaw it'll help my thickness planer blades last a little longer as they wont see any dirt etc that way.

Im pondering if I should try to split it in half and make it about 1/4". it might end up a bit less than 1/4" I think actually if it were 1/4 that might work fine and look basically the same. Id have to change the T and G to a lap joint, but it all gets tacked to the drywall or maybe glued anyway so I don't think it being thin is a real issue.

is most wainscott ( they type that is a series of strips) usually 3/8"?

I dont want it too thick or it'll bury the trim but If I split it then It might be a little less stable. the wood is stable because it is straight and vertical grain and it's about 100 years old. If I aim for 3/8 then the rest is really only waste.

If I do it on the tablesaw I lose the kerf of the blade. I can use a thin kerf blade. My bandsaw will do a thinner cut but it seems like a lot to expect from my little bandsaw.

I need to sort out what knives to use. If I can do this using a molding head on the tablesaw it might work better than some little router bit.

ill have a look at the ones I have since I dont want to go buy bits if I already have the style I need. I can probably try some samples to see if I can get it without spending on the special set of matched blades. Ill buy them if I need to but they seem to be around $200 or so for decent ones.

other than the tongue and groove, it usually has a V where pieces meet. I think it is also common to have a second V that is cut parallel to the joint and about 1/4" away from the joint, on the face. this is just to give it some style.

If anyone has pictures of different profiles I'm looking for some ideas on traditional profiles, as I dont have a sample other than some MDF that I bought. I'm not sure if I should try to copy the profile of the MDF

Im not too concerned about the width. it'll be whatever I have left after I trim off the old T and G , something like 2 3/4 or so should be appropriate. trimming more would only decrease my yield.

part of the issue is the noise. I'm ok with it but my girlfriend seems a bit annoyed at the sound of my saw and it's a lot of machining.

Phil

[phil]

I went through all my router bits looking for one to do the profile for wainscotting. I found one that looks like 3, 1/4" bumps in a row.

they fit a molding head for the tablesaw. I have one that holds three blades but I didnt really trust the thing. so I have a new one as well that just holds one blade.
I gave it a try and it seems to cut ok. I have a lot to do, maybe 100 boards or so.

so what it could look like it a strip 2 1/4" wide, two of the bumps would be on one side of the joint, then the joint would be in the valley, on the adjoining plank it would have one bump, so it would look similar to that of the picture with three bumps , then about 2" of flat space and repeat.

the new tongue and groove would be separate operations. I can set up the saw so one blade hogs out the groove and then set it up to do the
tonge with two blades and a spacer so it can be done in one cut. then the wood goes through on edge.

so
2 cuts to remove the old T and G
1 cut to trim the planks to even up the thickness, which varies because it's old flooring.
1 trip through the thickness planer to even it up and remove saw marks.
2 cuts to do the beading,
2 cuts to do the new T and G
then some light sanding to take off the planer patterns
some coats of oil as a finish.


Im trying to decide if that profile would be ok. I read about some having bad experiences with kickbacks when using the molding cutter. I think ii can make feather-boards to make that more safe.

all in all it looks like hours of stuffing wood through the tablesaw mostly, but then it doesn't cost me anything.

If I want to spend a little I could change the profile but then I need to find either router bits or a molding cutter that is more suitable.

I can double my yield if I slice all the boards on edge and then it will be about 1/4" thick. or I can not do that and end up with them all somethign like 5/8" or 1/2". Splitting all the planks would add a lot of work.

its a bit thick , but slicing them is a lot of work for the saw, lots of dust with the blade cutting 2 1/4 inches. I could flip them and do 2 cuts of 1 1/8" then they need to go through the planer anyway, unless the sawcut becomes the backside.

I'm trying to decide if the profile will look ok and fit the theme of 1924 craftsman style. If you look at the blade it would look like that but the joint would fall in the valley of one of the grooves.

[Gothichome]

Phill, our wainscotting has only the ‘v’ detail between boards, I have seen a period single bead combined with a ‘V’ to give a ‘V’ bead and flat arrangement but never a triple bead. The three bead might make the wainscotting look fussy. But on the other hand with a nice stain it just might be what a craftsman home may have had.

[phil]

Thanks for that. do you know how wide the planks are? is the V only at the joints or is it duplicated in the middle?

Im thinking similarily. it might be too fussy.
thanks for your input it helps.
The beads aren't actually "bumps", although they have that shape they would actually be recessed grooves forming the shape of the cutter. in other words nothing would protrude from the surface.

the reference I have is some MDF that I bought, there is a local molding shop and I should visit them as they may have in depth knowledge about what was common here in the era. I once tried to buy it but the price was prohibitive so I put MDF in the kitchen and painted it an orange that resembles the fir floors. Its close to tangerine.

the MDF is around 4" wide , it has a V groove in the middle and two "sort of bumps" that look similar to the profile of my cutter but they are wider and not as deep, I guess a bit larger radius to the curved portions. it sort of forms a V where they mate up. I'll get a picture when I'm at home. hard to describe in words.

I think I can cut the stock and probably do a lap joint if it is thin or a joint similar to standard flooring.. first I have lots to trim the edges and get to an even thickness and that is a lot of work so that gives me time to sort out the profile.

If I use profile cutters they may combine the very edge of the bead and the tongue or slot into one operation. I might even be able to get the router and the blade or molding head to work in unison to reduce the number of passes, and that way Id be cutting on edge as well as the face in one pass.

commercailly I htink they use a machine that can do it all in one pass but that's a more specific machine. a molding cutter I guess. also a lot of this can be done on a shaper with a power feeder. Im mainly interested in just using the router tablesaw, jointer and thickness planer which I have. I might try splitting it on the bandsaw, this is often called "resawing"

I'll mill down some samples and to the largest size I can get , also I want to see how laborious the splitting would become, and if thin stuff looks stable enough to look good and not go all twisty. If they dont really bury the moldings and baseboards Ill be happier. I have the casings and most baseboards off still . I just installed one long baseboard with a spacer of about 3/8 or so so it isn't completely flat to the wall and getting buried by the wainscott.
I may be ale to shape the profile while the planks are intact on both sides and then split them , that way I'm not trying to shape thin twisty strips.

lots to consider. I need to learn more by experimenting and asking more questions. maybe I can find catalogs of profiles. I can research that more. I work with some joinery people so Ill pick their brains too.

[Gothichome]

Phill, our wainscotting is three inches across the flat and three and a half on centre of the ‘V’. So you can add another 3/8 for the tongue. But you have to remember ours is 30 years older than your home.

[phil]

my material is 2 3/4", once i trim the old T and G off.
It has the odd nail hole from being flooring so I could trim about 3/4 " more off and cut that off or simply fill the nail holes with putty

as typical there is a wee bit of black stain near the nails. maybe that would look natural though, a bit like patina.

I split some to 1/4" it's still nice and straight. bit of dust since it's so much splitting but I can throw the wood through the saw fairly quickly. I tried a different blade designed for ripping and it worked great. I can make the cut to split it down to 1/4" in just one pass. My blade can cut the depth without flipping it.

Thinking I can cut it on an a bevel at one edge, and the other edge a shape like this >
then the bevel can fit under , sort of like this >/

the text representation doesnt' show the exact angle, but the adjacent piece would fit snugly underneath. It would also form a V on the joint.
then if there is any variation or movement you would not see a crack , it may affect the depth of the V slightly.

then perhaps I could cut a second V down the middle of the strip so it appeared like a series of strips about 1" wide with a V once per inch.

I see a lot of the paneling was no more than a V at the joints and not fancy. I agree that being Craftsman style it shouldn't look Victorian.

If I go that route, I dont even need to use my molding head, but if I find I want a different profile I can get whatever blades or router bits I need or make my own cutter to mount in the molding head. It only takes one blade.

I have a blade that is just a square cut , so I could possibly use a dremil and grind off what I dont want until I get any shape I want.

the fir is so stable that it doesn't seem to be going curly or anything and I think I can just apply it to my finished walls with a bit of glue and a few small nails. I dont even think it needs a T and G at all.

once the wainscott cap is on there, you cant' really see how thick it is and using 1/4" doubles my material.

back in the day, fir like this came about 1/2" and it was cheap like borscht, It was also a substitute for finished plaster so it saved time as they didn't need to finish the plaster where the wainscot was. It needed to be a little more structural because it was not being applied over a finished wall.

but now it's a bit pricey, and my walls are dead flat, so I figure I can do this, with really no difference visually.
Ill get a sample done and post it so you can see and I'm interested in feedback and ideas.

an easy reference seems to be by watching the background in old movies. a lot of it was not fancy from what I'm gathering, so maybe just because I can make any profile, that does not mean I need to. I could also choose to refrain from that temptation and keep it simple.

Its super tight grain and seems to be quite uniform.

It isn't normally joined so some of the material will be cut offs.

If I have some flooring left at the end, I want to make the wainscot cap wide like a shelf and another wider shelf about 18" down from the ceiling , to display some of my old radios. the flooring will make perfect material for that because it is quite long and I can join it as needed.

I have enough table radios that I can skirt the room all around and it will be a way to display them without using up every other flat surface. doing this will clear up some space as I have them stored all over where they can't be appreciated. rooms full of bookshelves quickly look like a warehouse.

If I choose a profile fancier than just a V I could also make an edge for the shelf with a similar pattern to tie it in. If I dont use flooring I could use plywood and just basically veneer it with this stuff cut to 1/8" or so.

I thought Id make up a bunch of shelf brackets for the upper shelf and take the proportions of the roof brackets ( typical of craftsman style) and use the same proportions only smaller, for my brackets. If they hit studs then it should hold quite a bit of weight.

the lower shelf/ wainscot cap wont stick out too far so it could probably just have some simple triangular blocks to support that.

I found that when I apply the baseboards, since they hide anythign behind I can use a drill ( go or no go) to accurately locate the studs. Then I put 2 thin but long nails in the baseboard at each stud. that way If I ever want to mount a picture I can simply drop a plumb bob and locate the stud locations.

Phil

[phil]

I decided I had better replace the door and window casings before I apply wainscot. I spent some time over christmas and sanded all the casings and baseboards I had pulled and stripped of paint.
I'm changing the length of a few planks to eliminate the receptacle holes since when I rewired I wanted more outlets so I moved them all above the baseboards.
I trimmed almost all the used flooring down to a basic dimension about 17mm thick.
I can split it all in half but decided I dont want it sitting around like that before I apply it. because it might go more bendy. If I skirt the whole room up to eye level it takes a lot of strips ( 300 ?) so since splitting them all reduces the wood quantity I need it makes sense. i might still be short on stock but then I can find something else to finish up if i just use up all I have first. More old flooring might just come my way.

I'm still not sure if I want a Tongue and groove or a lap joint or maybe I can just but them.
one of the joiners suggested I nail up 1/4" plywood and then glue the 1/4" thick wainscott strips to the plywood with just a bevel , square edges and no T and G.

I'm gluing fir strips from the flooring material onto the back of the baseboards, this steps it out from the wall a bit further so the wainscot wont bury the baseboard. It also allows me to join them with the strips as well as a beveled butt joint. SO I glue the strips on , run the planks over the jointer to straighten them and clean up the top and bottom edges then I cut a new roundover and that fixes up the top edge.


once I get ll the baseboards and trim fitted I can continue with making the wainscot. I think I can just split them on the tablesaw, run them through the thickness planer to clean up the face, bevel the edges and glue each in place as I go. If I cut them all to 1/4 and let them sit around like that, they might go a bit twisty so I thought I'd wait on doing that until im closer to being able to apply them.

The fit of the baseboards all changed a bit as I had previously opened all the walls , insulated and applied 5/8 soundproof drywall. some of my interior walls didn't need to be opened but i skimmed them with new drywall. since all the walls moved slightly I need to refit the baseboards but for the most part I can reuse them.

after sanding each piece needs some paint picking to get rid of any remaining specks of white paint and then I fill any holes, apply some danish oil and I can nail them back with a preliminary finish on them. I could run them through the thickness planer but I might get some grain tearout so I opted to just use my random orbital sander and do about 36, 60 and 80 grit. that gets me down through the darkened skin and into fresh wood and gets rid of paint remnants so Im not going crazy picking at paint specks. I'll finish sand after filling nail holes.

I have one non original air return vent in a baseboard it was about 5 x 22" I didn't know if I could just buy a grate that was suitable so I got some strips of brass and I'm trying to make my own vent to fit, so I got a little sidetracked and started making that.

I'll resume with the wainscot once I get through the re-installation of the baseboards and casings, its just a bit of work sanding and re-fitting all the parts. the ones that needed joinery take longer , all the shorter pieces should go faster.

wood shrinks over 100 years, it's mostly across the grain but it also moves a bit in length so I find if I replace the side casings, they sit on the window ledge or the plinth block, if its a door, and then the top piece doesnt' have much reveal since the side casings are a tad shorter due to shrinkage. where there are plinth blocks at door ways I can make new longer ones. That needs to happen because the floors are lower after sanding and there is no quarter round to hide how they meet the floor.
I'm not sure how to hide it on the window casings. the top piece maybe just wont have quite as much "reveal"
the reveal is the distance between the window frame itself and the casing. It should have a step there. If it's less like 1/8th that would be ok. 3/16" is probably optimal. I can't easily move the window sill and I can't really stretch the casing easily without it showing. If I need to I'll cut some new casings. that are a tad longer I guess..

Anyway the project is still underway, it just takes some patience to deal with some of these little details.
Phil

[phil]

Still fighting with the baseboards. stripping them, refitting them piecing bits together, sanding them, picking out any bits of paint left, and filling all the holes, adding strips to the backside. putting danish oil a and turps on a few times before installation. I'm on the third one starting from the longest to the shortest. I managed to cut one 1/8th too short after mesuring at least 5 times! I found the scrap I cut off and added it back on. it has a miter on both ends. I sanded one perfectly and glued the two strips on the backside, clamped it all up and stood back and realized I glued them to the nice side so I had to sand the other side I can't really put the wainscott until the baseboards are done. what a long job I created. I'll take a pic when I get something substantial done. most of them were pretty bent so I had to straighten them and when I glue the strips on I trinm the edges and redo the roundover. what Ive done looks ok but it sure isn't happening quickly.

[Lily left the valley]

*Patiently waits for pictures.*

[phil]

not a lot to show yet. I'm working around the room so I fitted that vent I made into one , but I haven't installed them yet. I got up to where the door casing is and had to make some new plinth blocks because with floor sanding they were too short. I had some stair treads from another old building and the wood had nice tight grain so I used that but since I had stepped the baseboards out a bit by adding strips behind I had to do similar to the plinth blocks. They have a rounded edge so they need to stick out about 1/4" more than the baseboards to look right. I'm basically just going around the room and trying to cut things to length and get some finish on them before I nail them in place. i have a bunch of short pieces with angles that follow the bay window. I might have to adjust a few to fit the new walls.

I preped the flooring by slicing most of it down to a common size. Its about 5/8 x 2" or so . I think I will put some 1/4 plywood then split them to about 1/4" thick with the V groove and attach that to the plywood. I didn't want to split it that thin and let it sit around though or it might go a bit wiggly.
1/4 is thin for a T and G joint but with plywood behind I can probably do a lap or a butt joint and put some glue , and maybe some small nails in to hold them
If I went full thickness Id need a lot more flooring, if they are split it wont be something anyone sees. I'll make a wainscot cap after, that might be a narrow shelf as well. looking forward to the weekend so I can find a little time to continue. Its going forward at a snails pace but I haven't given up