Yankee Gutters (Should I?)

[Eperot]

So this year I have finally gotten around to replacing my siding and scraping all other trim in an effort to make this old house look nice on the outside finally. Granted, I'm only finishing the first side as we speak, but hey...better than nothing, right?
So while up on my pump jacks doing my work I noticed something....there are metal patches nailed to the underside of the soffit near the bottom of the roof.


There are also metal patches on the terne metal roofs of the eave returns, as well as on the underside of the returns, heavily covered in paint so much that they were invisible to the eye from ground level. Eureka! I found foolproof evidence that my house at one point had yankee gutters, with the downspouts going clear through the eave returns.

Now, the original roof was slate (still have spares in the attic) but that slate was replaced along with the entire roof deck at some point, and the yankee gutters went with it. I have long yearned to replace my ugly, hated K-type gutters with something more attractive, and for the longest time thought I'd do half rounds. But in the light of this revelation....I can't help but want to recreate some yankees which would be more accurate and look super cool from ground level.

As it turns out, this week we went to Huguenot Street in New Paltz, NY which is a street of truly ancient stone French Huguenot houses. One house dating to the 1600's was modified during the victorian era, the stone walls incorporated into the new build and it had some really beautiful yankees. Check out that roofline.


Their construction seems fairly straightforward.



The thing that has me concerned is that most old houses of this era had them around where I live, and none do now. I understand that roofers hate them and would rather just shingle all the way to the drip edge, then tack on modern gutters, and that they can present problems with leak damage...but I also suspect that in most cases they work quite well and will last a looong time IF (and this is true of everything) they are maintained. Most aren't or were band-aided poorly so they leak, damage soffits and walls and have a bad name.

So, I cast it to you all....am I nuts to want these back? I know the modern terne coated stainless steel or copper lining will be pricey, but would you do it?

[Gothichome]

You certainly have the skills to put in yankee gutters and I don’t see any reason why you should not. It’s my understanding that they are maintenance intensive and suffer quickly from lack of. Saying that, with modern membrane products and treated wood I see maintenance or lack there of being less of an issue over time.

[Gothichome]

Nice old home you posted, I would think the renovation would be really late Victorian if not Edwardian do to the heavy craftsman influences.

[phil]

Mine were wood gutters and there are notches in the fascia boards where the planks running the length of the house were supporting them. Later metal gutters were installed, white ones.
I think I will repaint the gutters to match my house and leave well enough alone but the extent you go to with a more true restoration might be an option you want to consider. I left the fascia boards with the notches in them. for myself I thought well I want to do so many other things and so it's always a trade off against other work. If your house isn't full of nagging isues and your finances allow it, why not? they look nice.

i think if I was going to go "all out" I would also have used cedar shakes and not modern architectural shingles but again it's a mater of it being a trade off of money vs originality. most other old homes near me have the architectural shingles A few higher end ones used shakes.
likely the quality of the shakes is another thign to consider. the old ones lasted many years but they had better materials back then. In your area maybe other types of roof were more predominant?

the other options for me was the type of membrane. Id use one and if the roofing is a long project that you are doing on your own then spring for a better quality. there is a range.
the better ones can last as much as a year as a roof and that bides you time.

and then edge flashings. I put flashings to bridge the gap between the plywood and the gutters. They didnt exist originally. they cant' be seen from the ground.

another decision was the gable end flashings. i used a 2x2 drip flashing. that runs over the strip nailed to the fascia board. and you can see that from the ground. It protects the edge of the roof from water getting in.

I noticed my neighbor cut all his shingles flush. that will allow water to creep around into the wood strips and into the fascia boards. I opted for a 1/2" overhang. too long and they droop and look messy. the thing is that you then can't put a ladder against the gable ends without a block or somethign to protect them. The drip flashings dont really look original but they help protect the house from rot so I'm glad I did that extra step.

I found the flashings I bought were pretty cheap and as said there are good membranes that stick on or torch on. You might consult with a real roofer to get the right materials for that.

my house didn't have any valleys to speak of. some houses do and they tend to leave the metal flashing showing in those areas on roof near me. showing the metal is perhaps a detraction from originality.

my fascia boards sort of protrude out further than the gutters and hide the ends of them. the roofing at the corner is then sort of left to overhang a bit to protect the ends. Ive been noting various ways that roofers handle that. I formed the drip flashing so it covers the top of the fascia board and bent the ned , added some screws to make it sort of a box shape then covered it with a little shingle cut to cover that detail.

with your house it looks like the ends are sort of returned so that might not be a point to consider with yours.

you can also consider roof vents or a ridge vent. I put more 8x8 vents with plastic covers. as typical here. not so pretty but no one really notices that because all the houses have them. You can go metal but then you hear birds , hail etc hitting the metal. the plastic ones last the duration of the roofing. some add the spinning ones but they can get noisy. Ive heard they Work well and Ive heard the sound drives some people crazy.
they look a bit funny on an old house but if this helps get the heat out in summer maybe whether that's practical depends on area and how authentic you want it to look. Since you want authenticity that's probably not a great option for you.

When you lay shingles you start at the bottom and work upwards. tearing apart the top to do a ridge vent isnt' too bad as you can remove the existing easily and replace it in a normal manor. If you add the yankee gutters to an existing roof it means digging up under the already laid shingles and disturbing that area then doing your best to work downward in that area. you might need to lift the shingles up to get nails in the area of the nail strip. if you are not replacing the roof then I'd think about if you want to go tearing into that area. It can be done for roofing repairs but maybe that depends on they type of roofing etc. I dont think I'd go that route unless you are doing a new roof as well, but I dont think this is impossible. A roofer might advise on that point better.

If you insulate against the underside of the roof deck then your roofing won't ast as well as the roof deck then runs hotter. If it's metal or slate maybe that's not an issue but it affects the life of the typical 3 tab or architectural shingles.

the ones I used are IKO architectural shingles. they are fiberglass shingles some competing ones are a bit different material. the architectural ones have a profile that is supposed to mimic old style shingles. cost difference isnt; much. they are about the same price per bundle and you need three bundles per square for the architectural shingles and if they are 3 tabs then two bundles does one square.

a nice option might be to stray from the typical grey or black I see so commonly near me. You can special order something like red or green that is less common. that would set things off and make your house be different. You can also get different shapes and they can look nice.

After a new roof people sometimes put up to 3 layers when they re-roof, so if you plan to do further layers and you start with the 3 tabs instead of the architectural ones then the roof is more flat. I assume you can roof over the architectural ones but they might be more bumpy. That's 20 years down the road but maybe it's nice to have the option open of just doing a 2nd layer and not a tear off.

another option to consider is the idea of strapping , resheeting , insulating the roof but with a gap for airflow. then the air can cool the roof deck by airflow between the existing roof and the new roof on top. leave via a ridge vent. this would dramatically reduce heat buildup in summer and allow insulation which would save a lot of heat loss, perhaps at the expense of some originality. now you need to replace the fascia boards or cover the gap at the gable ends with a flashing. local climate may make that option a better one in some areas. In this day and age heat and AC cost money so making the house more efficient and comfortable is definitely a big consideration. In the old days they just burned more wood and didn't insulate but nowadays insulation is important and there are some good choices of materials.

Phil

[Eperot]

Phil,
I'm definitely not doing it until I need a new roof, and at that time will hopefully be installing Composite slate to mimic what was originally my roofing.

[phil]

that would be a good choice then and it would look like an old slate roof. Its a big undertaking , the gutters would be like the icing on the cake. Thanks for sharing the pics and the ideas , it sounds interesting.