oh great another window question

[maxhall1023]

Hey guys so working on some windows. So far I've only restored one window due to necessity (both ropes were broken on upper sash and I opened the window...oops). Thankfully I have more time to take a more methodical approach and add weather stripping this time around. So though my sashes are in good shape there is some discoloring due to water damage (I'm assuming this what its from). Anyhow our intention is to stain/shellac the interior of all of our windows. As you can see on the window that I did there is some slight discoloring, it doesn't bother me I think it just shows the history of the window. My wife on the other hand would like the color to be completely uniform. Any tips? On the window we've done I only used shellac.

[maxhall1023]

Here are a couple of pictures of the window I just stripped. This one has a bit more discoloring than the one that I refinished. I stripped with a heat gun and then followed up with smart strip and denatured alcohol. My plan is to reinforce some loose corners with dowels. After some sanding and BLOP treatment I'm hoping the discoloration isn't so pronounced.

[Kashka-Kat]

If it was mine, Id sand it a bit (lightly!!!) to even it out some and get the paint off, and then maybe use a stain (which btw was sometimes used back in the day either under the shellac, or sometimes they mixed in a colorant to darken the shellac - so youd still be authentic). Actually this is pretty much what Im doing on my own windows. Its always a balance between getting it nicely cleaned up .... but not going too far. You do want to leave some history. There is such a thing as too much sanding and wrecking a piece. Ask me how I know that!

If you have some old wood (or maybe get some from salvage yard) you can practice first and test out techniques/stain colors.

[Gothichome]

Max, I think Kashka is on the right track. A light sanding and restain. I see no need for a full blown restoration more of a rejuvenation. It would be nice to know Jades or Casey’s suggestions in this instance.

[maxhall1023]

Sanded the flats and profiles up to 120grit. Applied a wood toner to the discolored areas. Pegged the two bottom sashes with some homemade dowels from a different window. Going to BLOP them and carry on with the rest of the restoration. I do intend on weatherstripping these so I'll update the thread along with the process on my main page.

One of the bottom sashes is a little checked but the wood is solid so I don't see any need for additional reinforcement.

[phil]

fir that is near rusty nails will turn black, same hapens if you put something metal ont he window sill if it isn't protected by a coating.
this is due to the tanins in the wood reacting to iron.
You can remove it with wood bleach (oxalic acid) this isn't like household bleach.
You might be happy now they are sanded.
some of the discoloration might pop back if you put blopentine on them. wetting them slightly might give you a better idea what will happen when the finish is applied , without actually applying it.
If you think it's still too dark or stained, you could try the wood bleach. it will lighten them overall. If you put a coating now, then the wood bleach wouldn't do so much because the finish will protect the wood from the wood bleach.

if you want you can apply wood bleach , then oil see what they look like and if you want them a tad darker, put a spot of wood stain into your oil or blopentine mixture.

I wouldn't try to do a spot treatment, and what you do to one you'll want to do to the rest.

the raw wood will change quite significantly when you apply a clear finish. if you use a finish that has UV blockers like some modern water based polyurethanes then it might prevent sun darkening after the finish is applied.

In other words, applying wood bleach will remove the black stains, but it will also lighten the wood overall, You can then make the wood return to the original color by mixing just a little stain in the coating you apply, resulting in the same overall darkness, but with the stains removed.
I dont like to stain my wood so much that anyone could ever tell a stain was applied, I just do it as a color correction basically, usually with a few applications of oil with just a teeny bit of color added. too much stain is hard to reverse so I creep up on it.

I'd put linseed oil mixed with turpentine , then after a few coats and dry time between, you want you can put a clear topcoat like shellac or oil based poly , if desired. I'd paint the outside facing parts to block the UV, to protect the wood.

I suggest that now they are sanded, Just wipe with a wet towel and you'll get an idea how much of that black stuff will return with the finish on it. This will sort of give you a "preview" If you are happy , proceed, If you want it lighter and to remove the black stains then do so before any coating is applied.
The black stains may be right down in the wood if caused by nearby nails. If it is just near the surface then it may sand off. if it's deeply into the wood, the sanding tends to hide it but it quite drastically pops again with the finish applied, the black will return.
Right now it appears like you have removed the stain through sanding but it will come back somewhat with the finish on.

wetting down also raises the grain this happens once, if you sand it can be repeated. Its common in furniture making and fine finishing to do that just before final sanding. the wetness causes the fibers to find "where they want to be" then if it gets wet again the grain raising has already taken place.

If I fix a nail hole and putty it, sometimes I just dig out that black stain near the hole with a pick, then use a filler that matches the wood with the finish on it. i wet it to see the black stain pop. . getting the putty color just right ( with finish applied) takes a bit of trial and error. If I just fill the nail hole, even if the putty matches, what happens is the black stain surrounds it and the putty repair where the nail was becomes very noticeable.
I use powdered pigments to adjust putty color.

so in small spots one way to remove the blackness is to dig it out near the surface and use putty. of course you dont want much of the surface to be putty. I like to mask the wood and use putty very sparingly , only where it's needed. with tape surrounding where I put putty I can press it down in with a putty knife with force. , so nail holes or small cracks get filled up better that way than they would if you just dabbed it on into the spot.

[maxhall1023]

Thanks Phil for the detailed reply! We actually used wood bleach (oxalic acid) spot treatment on the discolored spots after sanding. I mispoke when I said wood toner. Our plan is to use an amber shellac tinted a tad more brown I believe. Possibly a mohawk color toner beforehand. THis of course after blopentine of the sashes. My parting beads are very checked and I was planning on fabricating some new ones. I have about 500bf of mahogany that I got for a song at an auction so I was thinking of using a little of this. I also have some white oak as well. I'm leaning towards the mahogany though. Would it be prudent to blop the new parting beads as well?

[phil]

sure the linseed oil will help preserve the wood by filling in some of the voids.
cutting new profiles isnt' hard once you have the blades and the setup. but i guess you need to weight that against the time. Mahogany might be a god wood you can check the rot resistance of different woods, part is the spices , the other part is weather it is tight grained. Honduran mahogany is more red and better quality, the Indian ( gaboone) spelling? mahogany is more pale.
you can worry too much though , any wood will work of course. I'd be a little fussy about the piece like dont use cheap home depot type lumber. Id use fir myself but try to select a piece with really tight grain if you can. maybe reuse an old window or door for it's old growth wood. sometimes we go to a fuss and stuff outlasts our lifetime.


not many make dowels, you can whittle a piece of wood a little larger then just take an pound it through a hole in a piece of steel. bed rails are pretty hard steel so if you drill a hole in a piece of bed-rail that will work as a home made die to make dowels. I was wondering if that is a drill bit guage.

sometimes for cracked wood I use epoxy but I surround the crack with tape , work it in and try not to coat the piece with epoxy. I had a very thin pointy artists spatula and that worked great for getting glue into fine cracks. a thin feeler guage .002" or so.. might work as well especially if you thin it down and shape it for this purpose.
if the area of the crack is bendy then you can flex the piece and capillary action will draw the glue in. If I have to bridge a gap I mix in wood dust. epoxy wont take stain though so if you dont paint it I'd refrain from smearing it all over as it will show in finishing or water may creep between the wood and the finish and turn cloudy and separate.

you can copy small bits of molding by using a dremil to shape a bit of hard steel into a scraping device and make a wood holder to hold the thing in position then basically just scrape a stick into the shape you want. Its practical if you just need a little of a certain shape but not for long lengths. once you get the blade to fit roughly then you put die or paint on the sample molding and remove metal where the dye transfers to your scraper. Its fiddly but eventually you get a perfect fit where the pant transfers all across the blade. you can buy old molding planes and they are used in this sort of way too.