turpentine

[1918ColonialRevival]

The S-W woodscape was a dark ebony color to start with. Should not have faded in only a year's time. After only a year, it had about the same appearance as oil-based stain that had weathered 15 years.

Needless to say, I was not impressed with the product and glad I only used it in a small test area on the outside of the house.

[Manalto]

As a national brand, Sherwin-Williams has to comply with environmental regulations in every state, including the stringent guidelines in California. I suspect that, as a consequence, they compromise in their formulations, with the results evident in their products' performance.

[1918ColonialRevival]

As a national brand, Sherwin-Williams has to comply with environmental regulations in every state, including the stringent guidelines in California. I suspect that, as a consequence, they compromise in their formulations, with the results evident in their products' performance.

There needs to be a point where enough is enough before we are regulated out of existence. We passed the point of insanity on that front a long time ago. Sure, everyone has the responsibility to be a good steward of the environment and not carelessly dispose of waste, but to regulate to the point that products designed to protect and maintain one's home are rendered virtually worthless is beyond ridiculous.

Reminds me of something that happened at work a couple of years ago. There have been so many cybersecurity programs added to our workstations that they are virtually unusable. I was in a meeting where they were talking about ways to add even more protection. I suggested taking everyone's workstation, placing them in a thick-walled safe, welding the safe shut and dropping it into the Mariana Trench. Our systems would be totally useless, but they couldn't be more secure!

Bottom line - too much of a good thing causes suffocation.

[GibsonGM]

I'm with 1918, I live in it daily, but it appears we'll have to go all the way & feel the pain before we 'get it'. These things creep, and most always to 'terminal' conditions. More regulation always leads to a point where the costs outstrip the benefits - a phenomena of government thru all ages. They got ya coming (SO horrible to suggest loosening up some regs!), and going (bureaucrats/human nature continue to 'improve' things that were bad ideas to begin with). You can read about this from ancient Greece...or Rome...yes 1918, we'd all be far safer if we just lived in SuperMax, LOL.

As for Woodscapes...I've used it professionally for say, 12 years. I've never had an issue. But I've also never found a stain where dark colors don't fade, some faster than others as was stated. I advise my customers on just these issues as a matter of course. I'll find out if CA actually gets a DIFFERENT Woodscapes, because here in harsh New England I've never seen it as bad as described above. DARK blue, still nice & .....dark, 7 yrs later...

Ben Moore does exactly the same thing (Arborcoat), and it also leaches surfactants...soapy oils...which can make portions of your siding have a slightly 'wet' appearance, as if there were morning dew on it. Paint manufacturers now only guarantee their products for 5 to 7 years due to the gutting of what made them good, so dig deep! I'll be checking in to see how you're doing in about 6...and if you wait TOO long, add 50% to the cost because I have to do a full prep again! Light colors ALWAYS last longer if properly applied. FWIW

@Phil: no termites - but boy, there are some big carpenter ants around these parts!

[phil]

my house is 1928. its been painted twice, Maybe it's stain, the shingles arent' shiny.
I figure it spent half its life unpainted, then they did yellow and then a pale orange color. with brick red trim. I dont mind the colors so I want to do it again maybe just make the orange a bit brighter but it isn't a loud color. it's a sort of unusual color scheme but reflects the period..
so Im listening intently and hoping to figure out what to use. It isnt' really peeling much and the shingles are pretty rough from shrinkage. I can see the size of the saw blade if I look at it in the right light.
some shingles are a bit curled up. I figure I might be able to just replace the bad ones but I'm not sure what type of paint or stain to use and 4-5 years sounds like a horrible timeline. I'm lucky it isn't' all loaded with layers .
I focused more on the insides. I dont wan the taxes to go up too much

[GibsonGM]

That longevity is awesome, Phil!! Believe it or not, the 'answer' now is to use...yes, Woodscapes or equiv acrylic stain. NOT paint. Paint is not the same anymore.

The short answer (you like the long one, I know, but have to go to work!) is that stains penetrate wood a little better, don't make a layer that 'weighs' on the sub-coatings, and when they age they chalk rather than peel. They tend not to pull up underlying (sound) paint layers. Cedar shakes release oils that can push off paint (but many old paints don't show this - due to oil paints?). Using acrylic stains is in agreement with US Nat'l Park Service preservation guidelines - some historic places, you can't get grants if you don't use an opaque stain. Layer upon layer of paint is NOT good for a home.

5-7 is the manufacturer's statement; like 25 yrs on the tube of caulk, LOL (then they give you a free $4 tube). To be honest, when I DO a place (not just a typical repaint, but a more involved resto), they get at least a decade out of me; I am picky because I don't want callbacks. Paint coatings require maintenance...much of the damage we see is just from owners not painting frequently enough. It was ALWAYS 7 to 10 years, we just don't want to admit it, ha ha.

Painting after year 5, 6, 7... means the $16,000 resto might only be half that this time. Once it's spalling off and I need to get out the plastic in a big way and spend maybe 7 days on just the front....6 week job instead of 3...it gets expensive. If you use the wrong product - it can be a nightmare.

Ex: SW Duration on old, many-layered claps...that stuff is paint remover! Many do get lucky, but I often see failure in 4 yrs around here, where many homes do NOT have a good maintenance history. It pulls as it dries...I won't use it (on historic homes, only new).

[GinaC]

Thanks for the information, GibsonGM. My painter only uses Woodscapes with Duration on top of it, and he's been doing this for 35 years. He says that with those two products, he's seen the paint job last 20 years, but the average is 10.

My cedar siding was last painted 20 years ago, so it still wasn't with lead paint. Probably before that it was lead paint, though, because he said that it didn't have any scraping marks from lots of old paint jobs.

[phil]

That longevity is awesome, Phil!! Believe it or not, the 'answer' now is to use...yes, Woodscapes or equiv acrylic stain. NOT paint. Paint is not the same anymore.

Thanks Gibson, Noted you are suggesting an acrylic stain not an oil based stain,
are oil based stains being pushed off the market as with the eco- movement?
or perhaps oil wouldn't absorb on top of the other layers like it would into wood.

they are a bit rough for scraping. I dont mind the grain texture. Maybe I can use TSP then pressure wash, let dry real good and hit any bare spots with blopentine , then go for it. maybe spray gun to load it on and a brush to get the cracks and work it in a little. I dont know if i need to use a primer.

doing work on the roof over the next while , I should pick up some of each color just for the bits and pieces then I can see how it's working before I go ahead.

I appreciate getting the advice from someone with such experience.
as with a lot of our houses , it has some overhang. I suspect the reason a lot of new houses will have issues faster since they rob them of overhang to get more square footage, especially here where land is so pricey.

they took one old house down two over from me. I think it was a week between the wrecking ball and pouring the foundation which is about 2' from the property line and a at least 10' deep. huge hole. I sure they will compliment it with a pretty flat roof to squeeze more out of the height restrictions and add window pits so the basement windows are regulation size and sort of above ground. a block away they cleared the whole block of houses , they were perfectly nice old houses. I think it'll be a 5 story wood framed thing. Compartment living at it's finest! old houses are dropping like flies for rental income. I like one they did, they made it a parking lot for a nearby compartment unit, and set the old houses back on top. At least they saved them. Many others they lift. anything over 60' they tear down and split the lot. Can't stop progress.
Phil

[GibsonGM]

Gina - no lead paint?? Yes, that's what I meant by "duration is good on new construction", LOL. Some use it quite successfully, as your guy says. I avoid it, because 98% of my work is on OLD, and badly neglected homes. All lead, all alligatored and most need heavy scraping.

I find if you topcoat that stuff with Duration, it 'pulls', and shortly thereafter the paint is coming off. Or worse...it 'bulges' on trim, under soffits etc and you don't notice it for 7 yrs...makes these pockets that later, you scrape open, and rot and dirt falls out Holds the water in. I think Woodscapes as a prime is a fine idea, I do that often...if there is a deep color, or a change in color, that's the way I go...get it 'pre colored' AND primed! Nothing special about latex "wood primer" in that regard. You likely will have no troubles.

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Phil...you are spot on...wet it up, TSP/water, rinse, dry. Check for loose paint edges where it's come off, scrape/sand them w/80 grit and sand any bare places a little. To be sure it won't lift later (sound surface). You could blop but in this application, probably not a lot of benefit. A stain like Woodscapes will treat you well. But blop will not hurt as long as you let it TOTALLY dry first. Weeks! ANY oils under the 'scapes will bubble it (or any paint). It's actually very easy, no 'tricks'. I say stain cedar because it is known to emit oils, which again can cause trouble. And if it was painted w/latex - if you oil stain it, it will be a nightmare! The acrylic is compatible with about anything on there now.

For shakes, yes, spray - that gets in the cracks! I will NOT spray claps, that's just to industrial for what I do - but shakes, you basically HAVE to, most always. Play with the sprayer before you jump in if it's new to you Or use a wagner power painter! But put it on reasonably heavy, and back-brush the section before moving on. Evens the application, makes sure no 'pookas' (little holes that didn't get filled w/product, or air bubbles that pop, revealing the subcoat). Yeah, you'll have the spalls showing (old paint edges, where it came off). That's the charm! Everything I do shows that unless otherwise specified - then it looks too new. Lightly sanding them eases the edges so they loo "old" and not "junky". Also lets water roll off the area.

Oh - primer....like Gina's guy says...just hit the bare spots w/woodscapes, and when dry paint over it. Stain is its own primer! If doing 2 coats, no prime, just apply the 2 times...

I agree on overhangs...old Capes here from the 1850s are great and usually last, BUT the ones with the skimpy (or missing) soffits - they tend to have rotted sills and other problems. I don't like to work on them for that reason.

[phil]

I painted a little of my trim. I just had some fascia board parts , and the trim on the top edges of the fascia boards, they were a bit punky and since my drip flashing will cover them I opted to just replace all that now. I happened to have a bit of oil based stain , its a little off from what I want to end up with but decided that I should paint any new parts and later I can topcoat it to match. maybe not the right thing but it wasn't much area anyway. i have a BM down the street so maybe I could get some mixed there in the right color.

the color is like the old "red lead" we used to use on cars. I said to my neighbor "don't mind the color, its just there to prevent the wood from rusting for now " I have about 5 gallons and it's probably 10 or 20 years old. it went on sale when the old smelly oil based stuff went out of style.

I think the painting will be fun because I'll get that sense of accomplishment. roofing just makes me tired and I never really look at the roof anyway. It will be nice to get that behind me.
my neighbor painted hers a dark blue, purple color. I thought it a weird color for an old house. she scraped most of it then hired painters. no blopentine. they pressure washed and sprayed some type of sandable primer, did some sanding and then topcoat. a year later she had some big bubbles so I figured a week wasn't enough dry time, after a couple more years it doesn't seem much worse. It didn't seem to fade a lot.