Facing the blopentine stage in window restoration. Need to make up a batch.
Found Sunnyside brand pure gum spirits turpentine on Amazon. Does anyone know if that is the real stuff?
turpentine
-
1918ColonialRevival
- Knows where blueprints are hidden
- Posts: 907
- Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:58 pm
- Location: Baltimore, MD
- Contact:
Re: turpentine
If it says "spirits of turpentine", it should be the real stuff; however, I don't particularly trust Amazon. They'll advertise one thing, but send something else. Happened to me several times.
I'd try locally before resorting to Amazon. I've still been able to find it at some mom and pop hardware stores. The big box stores I don't even bother with.
Unfortunately, turpentine has been one of the things the green mafia has turned their attention to (I have no idea why - there are much worse things out there) and it's getting harder to find. What makes it worse is so many of the major retailers pander to these idiots. Similarly, oil based primer or paint of any kind is getting hard to find in this area because it's "bad for the environment". All because it has the dirty word "oil" in it. Never mind that latex based paints were never intended for exterior use - the crusaders don't have a clue.
I'd try locally before resorting to Amazon. I've still been able to find it at some mom and pop hardware stores. The big box stores I don't even bother with.
Unfortunately, turpentine has been one of the things the green mafia has turned their attention to (I have no idea why - there are much worse things out there) and it's getting harder to find. What makes it worse is so many of the major retailers pander to these idiots. Similarly, oil based primer or paint of any kind is getting hard to find in this area because it's "bad for the environment". All because it has the dirty word "oil" in it. Never mind that latex based paints were never intended for exterior use - the crusaders don't have a clue.
Re: turpentine
My experience and observations have been similar to 1918.
I bought a dusty can of Sunnyside turpentine off the shelf at a local (Connecticut) Ace hardware store, after trying several others in the area. I'm no expert in the authenticity of turpentine but that's what it smelled like.
I bought a dusty can of Sunnyside turpentine off the shelf at a local (Connecticut) Ace hardware store, after trying several others in the area. I'm no expert in the authenticity of turpentine but that's what it smelled like.
-
phil
- Has many leather bound books
- Posts: 4616
- Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:11 pm
- Location: Near Vancouver BC
Re: turpentine
I got 4 gallons with rusty tops. It really stinks. Hoping that's what it is supposed to do.
one way to find old paints is to not buy them new. Lots of people have a pile of cans in the basement, usually it's pink or aqua blue or something nice like that. I remember dad mixing all the colors together to make paint for the fence. he came up with a nice browny pink sort of color
Its actually hard to give it away, recycling wont take it. You can pour the stuff into something to evaporate and when it becomes a solid it can go in the garbage. I have some stuff that was to put on tarps in the army. it smells like some sort of preservative. Maybe it would work in place if it's something outside.
one way to find old paints is to not buy them new. Lots of people have a pile of cans in the basement, usually it's pink or aqua blue or something nice like that. I remember dad mixing all the colors together to make paint for the fence. he came up with a nice browny pink sort of color
Its actually hard to give it away, recycling wont take it. You can pour the stuff into something to evaporate and when it becomes a solid it can go in the garbage. I have some stuff that was to put on tarps in the army. it smells like some sort of preservative. Maybe it would work in place if it's something outside.-
GinaC
- Forgotten more than most know
- Posts: 437
- Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:19 pm
- Location: Newport, VT
Re: turpentine
Nobody hurt me, but I'm wondering if we can evolve with the industry and use something other than blopentine.
I'm asking this because my house painters used Sherwin-Williams products to paint my house, which has the original cedar siding. They primed with Woodscapes (tinted stain) and then painted with one of the exterior paints.
Since I've got so much of these two products left over in the color I want to use, I'm wondering if it will be ok on my sashes.
I'm asking this because my house painters used Sherwin-Williams products to paint my house, which has the original cedar siding. They primed with Woodscapes (tinted stain) and then painted with one of the exterior paints.
Since I've got so much of these two products left over in the color I want to use, I'm wondering if it will be ok on my sashes.
1939 Minimal Traditional
Re: turpentine
I would've stained the cedar, 2 coats, and called it good. Oh well. Let us know how it holds up!
The paints you certainly can use to topcoat your sashes, but the need for an oil prime is still there. Acrylics won't penetrate to the degree you want, and since it is SO much work to pull the glass etc....I'd advise to do the very best you can! It's not 'failure to evolve' that keeps blop around; it is the fact that it's SO GOOD!
A great process is to apply blop, let dry a few days, then OIL prime anything outside the rabbetts...dry again...then do your glazing etc, and top coat with your SW paint when your glazing has set up. Word of caution...oil PAINTS for topcoat dry harder, so you get less binding of the sash....if you use your leftover paint, I'd want a satin or better sheen for the same reason!
The paints you certainly can use to topcoat your sashes, but the need for an oil prime is still there. Acrylics won't penetrate to the degree you want, and since it is SO much work to pull the glass etc....I'd advise to do the very best you can! It's not 'failure to evolve' that keeps blop around; it is the fact that it's SO GOOD!
A great process is to apply blop, let dry a few days, then OIL prime anything outside the rabbetts...dry again...then do your glazing etc, and top coat with your SW paint when your glazing has set up. Word of caution...oil PAINTS for topcoat dry harder, so you get less binding of the sash....if you use your leftover paint, I'd want a satin or better sheen for the same reason!
-
1918ColonialRevival
- Knows where blueprints are hidden
- Posts: 907
- Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:58 pm
- Location: Baltimore, MD
- Contact:
Re: turpentine
Not to deviate too much, but I got a can of the S-W Woodscape about 3-4 years ago as an experiment. Let's just say it doesn't hold up well in an area with sun exposure. Fading was apparent after only about 12 months.
-
phil
- Has many leather bound books
- Posts: 4616
- Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:11 pm
- Location: Near Vancouver BC
Re: turpentine
1918ColonialRevival wrote:Not to deviate too much, but I got a can of the S-W Woodscape about 3-4 years ago as an experiment. Let's just say it doesn't hold up well in an area with sun exposure. Fading was apparent after only about 12 months.
could also be that some colors fade more than others. for example if you look at old printed posters you will usually see they look blue-ish. It's because the yellow and red ink isn't as light fast. Paint isn't really that dissimilar.
I remember seeing those bumper stickers I "heart" my poodle etc.. I saw one where the red faded out and someone took a magic marker put the F word in it's place
Re: turpentine
Many years ago,National Lampoon had a cut out that you could paste over the heart. It was the picture of a screw.
I concur with the variability of fading. I chose ivory and beige for the house because of the intensity of the sun and the Western exposure of the front.
I concur with the variability of fading. I chose ivory and beige for the house because of the intensity of the sun and the Western exposure of the front.
-
phil
- Has many leather bound books
- Posts: 4616
- Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:11 pm
- Location: Near Vancouver BC
Re: turpentine
I looked up penetrol ( which was mentioned in the next thread -about a particular paint) and it said it was a "stoddard solvent" I looked that up and got this info on wikipedia.
part of they mystery we face is that product names often hide the ingredients. for any paint or solvent you can ask for the MSDS sheets. often that gives a bit more information as they talk about the toxic ingredients.
I thought this was worth reading, as it simplifies things by speaking more about hte basic ingredients. It also mentions "Turpentine substitute"
basically from what I'm understanding is that paint thinner and this Stoddard solvent and white spirits are derivatives of crude oil whereas the turpentine we use is derived from wood, which I assume provides it's bug resistant properties.
another factor is the absorption properties of the wood. If you buy new wood that
s been through a planer it has a "mill glaze" because the blades sort of hammer the wood. You can give it time to open up or do things like pressure wash to disturb the grain to get a better hook. Ive often heard it said that you shouldn't go paint a set of stairs after installation but rather wait a year. - then it will stick better and peel less.
anyway I think this is worth reading, It might take me a couple of re-reads to really absorb it, but most is pretty understandable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_spirit
this other link shows a "mineral turpentine"
http://www.recochem.com.au/files/downlo ... _Apr11.pdf
this other link will bring up a search of MSDS sheets for various brands of turpentine. some from other countries. I think if we were to take a bit of time to try to disseminate the information we may learn more about how different brands compare, How continuous exposure to one brand may be better or worse than others and perhaps get some info about how the turpentine that is derived from wood resins protects against bugs. They dont exactly give an ingredients list but you can sort of use the info from toxicology to understand what the solvents are that they use in a particular brand. some ingredients may still be trade secrets, but it gives some clues as to what's in it.
https://www.google.com/search?q=turpent ... refox-b-ab
Oil is at a low point because of economic conditions and perhaps the green movement away from internal combustion engines may have an effect as time wears on. , while trees become more scarce. perhaps this affects the cost of the solvents we like to use and we could see a change in trends towards the use of petroleum products because they will become cheaper while tree resins may become more sought after and increase in price, but that's just my take on it. It seems that turpentine may be derived from other vegetable sources as well as wood. the shelf price on traditional turpentine is a lot higher than most oil based solvents, so far as I see. now that newspapers and a lot of paper use and need has been replaced with electronics, perhaps we manufacture less wood pulp , Was the turpentine a product of the pulping process?
It might be good to understand more about long term exposure of the various types especially if we are treating big projects with it or using it on a continuous basis, because these things can be accumulative, and may lead some of us to us loosing our marbles or our screwdrivers over time
my layman's analysis is that if your turpentine stinks, good , it should and that probably means it also kills bugs. Now maybe bugs aren't so much of an issue for interior woodwork, so perhaps the application affects what properties we need from the stuff? i dont see the baseboards Im working on being eaten by bugs but maybe it affects how moss forms on something painted or termites. Here we dont have the termite issues they have out east I dont think. maybe because humidity is less?
Phil
part of they mystery we face is that product names often hide the ingredients. for any paint or solvent you can ask for the MSDS sheets. often that gives a bit more information as they talk about the toxic ingredients.
I thought this was worth reading, as it simplifies things by speaking more about hte basic ingredients. It also mentions "Turpentine substitute"
basically from what I'm understanding is that paint thinner and this Stoddard solvent and white spirits are derivatives of crude oil whereas the turpentine we use is derived from wood, which I assume provides it's bug resistant properties.
another factor is the absorption properties of the wood. If you buy new wood that
s been through a planer it has a "mill glaze" because the blades sort of hammer the wood. You can give it time to open up or do things like pressure wash to disturb the grain to get a better hook. Ive often heard it said that you shouldn't go paint a set of stairs after installation but rather wait a year. - then it will stick better and peel less.
anyway I think this is worth reading, It might take me a couple of re-reads to really absorb it, but most is pretty understandable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_spirit
this other link shows a "mineral turpentine"
http://www.recochem.com.au/files/downlo ... _Apr11.pdf
this other link will bring up a search of MSDS sheets for various brands of turpentine. some from other countries. I think if we were to take a bit of time to try to disseminate the information we may learn more about how different brands compare, How continuous exposure to one brand may be better or worse than others and perhaps get some info about how the turpentine that is derived from wood resins protects against bugs. They dont exactly give an ingredients list but you can sort of use the info from toxicology to understand what the solvents are that they use in a particular brand. some ingredients may still be trade secrets, but it gives some clues as to what's in it.
https://www.google.com/search?q=turpent ... refox-b-ab
Oil is at a low point because of economic conditions and perhaps the green movement away from internal combustion engines may have an effect as time wears on. , while trees become more scarce. perhaps this affects the cost of the solvents we like to use and we could see a change in trends towards the use of petroleum products because they will become cheaper while tree resins may become more sought after and increase in price, but that's just my take on it. It seems that turpentine may be derived from other vegetable sources as well as wood. the shelf price on traditional turpentine is a lot higher than most oil based solvents, so far as I see. now that newspapers and a lot of paper use and need has been replaced with electronics, perhaps we manufacture less wood pulp , Was the turpentine a product of the pulping process?
It might be good to understand more about long term exposure of the various types especially if we are treating big projects with it or using it on a continuous basis, because these things can be accumulative, and may lead some of us to us loosing our marbles or our screwdrivers over time
my layman's analysis is that if your turpentine stinks, good , it should and that probably means it also kills bugs. Now maybe bugs aren't so much of an issue for interior woodwork, so perhaps the application affects what properties we need from the stuff? i dont see the baseboards Im working on being eaten by bugs but maybe it affects how moss forms on something painted or termites. Here we dont have the termite issues they have out east I dont think. maybe because humidity is less?
Phil