Replicating that dark shellac look

[GinaC]

I just wanted to follow up in this thread since today I did some experimenting.

Unfortunately, I found that I do not have shellac. Some moron actually put polyurathane over paint and dings and tobacco-stained wood. There goes my wish to get it darker and less red.

So how do I proceed without stripping everything? I can learn to live with the color, and the small dings give the house character, but I'd like to get rid of the white paint slops and just clean the whole thing up.

[Gothichome]

Gina, being poly I think you could probably get aware with a paint thinner on those paint splatters.

[Manalto]

A single-edged razor blade may work.

[GinaC]

How about Howard Restor-A-Finish? Has anyone here used it?

[Gothichome]

I have not Gina.

[phil]

Gina how complex is the molding, can you post a pic?
you may have success using paint stripper on poly, particlarily if it's fresh poly but it may not work so you can try if you like.
but we dont know if it is water based poly or oil based poly. Sandpaper takes it off, Id do that if the molding is simple but if it's complex and hard to sand then it's harder.
Gothichome suggested trying paint thinner on the paint over the poly, That could work , maybe with a bit of fine steel wool. you can try alcohol too . Poly can take those things usually but dont let them dwell too much. If the poly is covering the trim but you want it darker you can tint poly so you can continue with the poly, Id use satin for the last coat and gloss for any between layers. of course you dont want to trap paint between. I think you can add your trans tint dye to oil based poly. if you do, try a small sample first.

if you sand poly and break through in spots, and then use things like solvents then it may creep under near the edges where you broke through where the finish is very thin. If that happens it can be corrected with more coats of poly but try to avoid it. .

poly isn't absorbent and it's a tough finish so it isn't recommended to put shellac , lacquer , linseed oil , dainish oil over-top as another layer. If you like it but its a bit scratched you can use oil but rub it all off really well so it only sticks in the scratches not on the surface. dont mix oil based products into water based poly. Myself I don't use water based poly. that waterbased stuff may block the UV and not allow natural darkening of the wood. the water in it raises the grain which is not desirable when applying a finish. It doesn't stink like the oil based stuff. If the finish was applied long ago its probably oil based. oil based poly isnt' new, its been around a long time. the water based is more recent. all these products are for indoor use not outdoor.

if it's got poly down already and you want to put more poly that's ok if you just scuff sand you can put another coat but make sure it looks nice underneath first because you are locking in what's there. That's assuming it is oil based poly. If you have water based poly, I'm not sure what happens if you topcoat with oil based poly or the reverse. you can put poly over other finishes. you can mix oil based poly and danish oil or put oil down first. you can put lacquer over oil or shellac over oil.

lots of people don't like poly because they think it makes things look plastic-y
usually they are looking at the sheen, It can be very glossy, but the sheen is adjusted by adding blush , a white powdery substance. the more added the more flat it is. If you put stuff with blush in between layers it tends to cloud the finish. the blush settles in the can so its possible to take the top of it off before stirring. you can thin it with paint thinner. when dry the same paint thinner will not easily melt the finish once the poly is dry. this is why you can try thinners on poly to remove the paint splatter without harm to the finish. If you sand poly between coats, you can use wet-or-dry sandpaper wet with paint thinner, just try not to soak it and leave it soaked and try not to break through. using the sandpaper wet will keep it from clumping on the paper , particularity if the poly isn't fully cured. If I apply poly I do several thinned coats and sand this way between. I prefer padding to brushing. poly wont melt into the old finish, shellac and lacquer will. poly will interlink with fresh coats if done within hours so I like to do all my coats in sequence so that they knit.. dont gob it on and let it pool that would look bad. you can add up to about 10 % solvent. If you sand it lightly and put more poly it will stick fine.

poly is pretty resistant to most solvents, so if you do a table and spill stuff on it like alcohol it won't hurt the finish like it will if it is shellac or lacquer. Each finish has different properties so I just wanted to explain a little. when you start combining finishes a general rule is you can put a hard finish over a softer one but the reverse is not recommended. poly creates a non porous surface so things like wiping stains may not work well as they depend upon absorption. consider poly a top coat if you use it. Its good for a tough coating but I would try not to use it a lot on doors and trim. trim usually doesn't' see much wear anyway. floors are different. In general , keep poly away from antiques. its good for where water is frequent, kids tables, maybe trim in kitchen or bath where you want the moisture protection. dont put it on doors and things like that. If its already there, then I'd stick with the same, the damage is done, if you think of it as damage.

some moldings are so simple it is easier and faster to cut new ones, but if you work on a window sill or your fancy handrail this my not be an option. sometimes it isn't worth a lot of time to restore a stick if you can just cut a new one. stuff like corner round or picture rail may be cheap to buy if you see a molding shop.

if you work on things like tabletops you can create situations if you seal one side of the wood and not the other because it can create a situation where humidity is absorbed on one side more than the other and that can cause warping. that should not be a issue for trim that is nailed on the wall, but can be with some big flat surfaces.

[Kashka-Kat]

Gina, generally the antique "refinisher" type of products are made to only dissolve shellac or lacquer, not polyurethane. It may be possible to get off enough of the polyurethane that a heavy bodied stain like Zar or General Finishes gel stain would go over it. Heavy bodied meaning they sit more on the surface of wood, and are more opaque or semi-transparent, as opposed to a penetrating stain which goes deep into the pores. The latter would not work because the polyurethane has probably gone into the pores of the wood I would certainly not attempt this unless youve done experimentation in an out of the way location or on some experimental wood pieces same species as your trim.

To remove the paint, if its latex or acrylic you might be able to just scrub it off with hot soapy water and a scrubber pad. It will soften and comes off easily, unless its penetrated into the wood fibers. If its just sitting on top of the polyurethane- that should come off easily.

[GinaC]

After a bunch of research, I came across a product called Briwax. It's basically carnauba and dye with a little solvent mixed in. It's supposed to be able to soften even polyurethane in order to bond to it. It's not permanent and will have to be reapplied from time to time, but I am hopeful that it will be able to tone down some of the existing red. I ordered it from Amazon since nobody around here carried it, so I'm waiting for it to get here.

As for getting the paint off, I haven't tried anything yet. If the Briwax can get me the color I want while evening out the finish, I'll be up for scrubbing the paint drips.

[phil]

if you wanto use a paint stain just sand it a bit and get some hook for it to stick into. I wouldn't put any wax product between that might break the bond. you can try stronger solvents, maybe acetone, but really, the best remover for poly is sandpaper. Its not hard to sand once fully cured. why waste chemicals.