Dummy Plumbing Question

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Willa
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Dummy Plumbing Question

Post by Willa »

The house came with an outside pipe and spigot for the back. However - it was missing its handle, so I never used it (water barrel instead).

When the plumber was here some time ago, I asked him about making it workable. Something something code outside faucets now need to have pressurized valves and be low to the ground something something. I was hearing : " $$$$$, $$$ -- $$$$$$$. " He looked at the very old existing spigot and said - though I was to say I wasn't hearing it from HIM - that I could just get a handle for it. It's the kind where the water needs to be shut off inside the house for the winter. Being the slow mover that I am, I finally purchased a handle that seemed like it would fit the part, but it didn't.

I got the plumber to remove the spigot (you know the part with the faucet, that screws onto the pipe that you can attach the hose to). It seems that I cannot find the correct size of handle at the local hardware stores so it makes sense just to buy a whole new assembly, from the US, via Ebay. Local (Ontario)hardware does not seem to carry this part now.

I am unclear about SIZING though. The old part has an EXTERIOR pipe size of 3/4" - while the interior of the pipe measures 1/2" exactly. The hose bibs are sold as either 1/2" or 3/4". Is this referring to the exterior or interior pipe size, of the part that screws in ?

I know this is a very simple problem - please be kind !

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1918ColonialRevival
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Re: Dummy Plumbing Question

Post by 1918ColonialRevival »

Sounds like a 1/2" hose bib will work for your application. Should be available from any hardware store.

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Willa
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Re: Dummy Plumbing Question

Post by Willa »

1918ColonialRevival wrote:Sounds like a 1/2" hose bib will work for your application. Should be available from any hardware store.


Not in this province, in Canada !

EDIT: Local small hardware store has one. They can sell them as long as the homeowner - not a plumber - installs it. Helpful store guy also explained the pipe diameter thing - that the inner diameter was how it is sized. The pressurized gasket was to prevent the risk of suction - ie if you were filling up a watering can with herbicide and added water - but the hose was in the watering container - there is a risk of the watering can contents being sucked into household water system. This sounds like a small "what-if" scenario but that's what the code in this province demands.

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Re: Dummy Plumbing Question

Post by 1918ColonialRevival »

Backflow valves are required in the US for applications like boilers, but to require backflow prevention on a hose bib isn't just overkill - it's insane. Classic governmental overreach. Nothing ticks me off more than a bunch of politicians passing regulations on something they have no clue about. I bet you could search every province in Canada and every state in the US and be able to count on one hand the number of lawmakers who could tell you the difference between a ball valve and a gate valve.

Glad you were able to find one locally. I would've sent you one if you couldn't source one.

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Re: Dummy Plumbing Question

Post by Gothichome »

Gezzz, they best not look at my outside spigots.i think I would just go to Home Depot. Get a simple 1/2 inch npt spigot. Willa, I have seen your set up there is nothing complicated. A spigot attached to a pipe.

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Willa
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Re: Dummy Plumbing Question

Post by Willa »

Gothichome wrote:Gezzz, they best not look at my outside spigots.i think I would just go to Home Depot. Get a simple 1/2 inch npt spigot. Willa, I have seen your set up there is nothing complicated. A spigot attached to a pipe.


I don't think the garden hose police will be at your door any time soon. I think (don't know - I am not a bureaucrat) that the existing spigot set up is probably acceptable but any changes require the pressurized set up. The same as that a fuse box is still acceptable under existing code, but that a breaker box is all that you would be able to get if you needed a replacement or with new construction ? An electrician told me that the fuse box is actually safer as when a fuse blows, it must be replaced vs an overloaded circuit can just have the reset switch flipped ?

I haven't been brave enough to turn on the water in the basement yet to see if that works(I did install the new hardware store one - $ 9.99) or if there are any geysers. I think I will save that excitement for when a friend is standing by...

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Re: Dummy Plumbing Question

Post by Gothichome »

Got to be brave Willa, nothing but fear and possibly drowning getting between you and success. Turn the outside tap wide open before opening the valve in the basement, and only crack the basement valve at first. Have a look for water we’re it shouldn’t be. Then close the out site tap. This will build pressure in the pipe, have another look. If all is dry, your good for a career as a plumber.

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Re: Dummy Plumbing Question

Post by phil »

on willas comment about the breaker box. the reason a fuse is safer than a circuit breaker is because it relies on a fuse element that the power has to pass through. If too much energy is put through, such as a short or by overloading the wire reaches its maximum and burns out.

a circuit breaker is a mechanism that senses the current draw and if excess current is detected it is designed to open the circuit. They can stick. If you have a short and the breaker sticks the wires leading to the breaker can get red hot before the wire burns and acts as a fuse but that might accompany a fire in the wall.
for this reason I would replace vintage breakers. they dont often stick but relying on really old parts could cause a failure. it is possible.

fuses are so simple they really can't fail , they cannot stick, they have no moving parts. just dont put pennies behind the fuses, that will basically eliminate them and its a stupid old trick that is dangerous. its worth checking to be sure others have not resorted to that. just unscrew and look. no penny - good ( if you don't look you can't see the penny)

and yes someone could try to reset a breaker or replace a fuse while you are in some other room not communicating so if there are others at least use a sign. locking the breaker is prefered and often the only legal way. If I work on machienry I must lock it out not just turn it off, that's the law.


the 1/2" designation comes from 1/2" pipe. it refers to the inner diameter of the pipe not the physical size of the fitting so it will look larger than a 1/2" bolt. more like 3/4...
the threads on pipe fittings are tapered so that they tighten up as they are tightened to prevent leaks. you can wrap the threads in teflon tape but if they are brass it may not really be necessary. the teflon lubricates the treads and helps it seal but the pipe thread fittings should seal without it. it can help prevent rusting together somewhat.
NPT is common. unlike regular nits and bolts you dont have "metric NPT and standard NPT" just NPT ( national pipe thread) other fittings can have all sorts of threads but this is about the pipe connections. usually plumbers use the white tape gas fitters use a thicker yelow tape and you can also get stuff in a liquid or gell form.

backflow preventers are designed to shut if they see an improper pressure differential. I know a bit about them as I am being trained to repair them by a team of plumbers but it really isn't my job. they protect the city water from becoming contaminated by a user feeding water into the system. you have to be trained to service them here in Canada there is a ticket for that in addition to a plumbers ticket. I'm not sure if they are used in new houses or just commercially but they are required in certain circumstances and you can check the law rather than me being off track with the laws. these backflow preventers are quite expensive.

the hose bib outside will crack when it freezes unless you have a second tap inside. If you ave that second tap you can open the tap outside then close the one inside so that the outside tap doesn't have water in it otherwise it can freeze and break from the water expansion. 3/4 is a big one you can probably use 1/2 unless you need a big sized garden hose. I put a big one in case I clean gutters and such and I run it at full street pressure so it is before my regulator. I figure it is also good fire safety to have a big hose at street pressure. mine relly blasts the water my city might vary but its normally a lot higher than my house pressure.

check if you even have a pressure regulator in your house. it will limit the pressure in the house to about 25 lbs or where it is adjusted to. mine did not have one so my old plumbing was seeing high pressures and that could cause a failure in old piping. how that surfaced for me was when the water tank started blowing its pressure relief valve and spilling water. old houses might not have ever had one, mine did not so I put one in.

if you want to check your house pressure you might have a fitting that looks like an air valve on a tire , a schrader valve. a water pressure gauge or a tire gauge will work. you can also thread a fitting onto any tap to check it. if you do have a pressure regulator this valve connection may be part of it so look there first.


if you like you can install a hose bib that has the shutoff inside the house where it is warm. this will prevent you from forgetting to open the outside tap and close the inside one. if you forget the outside tap will freeze and break. this will prevent that scenario. here is an example of that. its long and the tap opens and closes the valve which is inside the house where it is warm.
https://www.homedepot.ca/product/aqua-d ... 1000117469


perhaps what your plumber was referring to is something like this

https://www.familyhandyman.com/plumbing ... or-faucet/

note the following:
"Second, an anti-siphon device (vacuum breaker in a water spigot), now required by all building codes, is built into some new sill cocks (or can be added on to existing ones; step 11). It prevents unsanitary water from being pulled back through a garden hose and contaminating your water system."

I think its unlikely you will ever backfeed the water system with your garden hose. maybe if you hooked it to a pump backwards or ran a really long hose up a very steep hill you could put pressure on the system but it seems very unlikely... evidently this must be a possibility so the city wants assurance against people contaminating the public potable water system so laws like this are perhaps getting more strict. you'd have to do something strange for that to happen but It is possible to contaminate the system and that's something they are trying to safeguard against. it could make a lot of people sick if one person did some really dumb thing like pumping dirty water from a hot tub into the city water system. this doesn't look so serious as the backflow presenters I am being trained to repair. I didn't get time to do the official course, I was just herded into a situation and I will help the ticketed plumbers and they are helping me understand how to troubleshoot them they connect some fancy gauges to measure different pressure differentials . I am not a plumber by trade .

in order to get water to flow from the garden hose into the house system you would have to overcome the pressure in the house with pressure in the hose.. possible perhaps but I cant; see a likely scenario.. at our summer pace where we pump our own water from a well then perhaps it could happen as we shut the pump down. maybe similar could happen if the city does shut down the house pressure to repair piping or something like that. maybe some unusual situation could cause suction on the city side during city repairs.. for good reason the city is extremely sensitive about is supply being contaminated so this is a precautionary measure and a new law perhaps?

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