Sash Window Question for Jade

[Willa]

I am wondering how much smaller a sash window is than the opening ? What is the amount needed for it to operate smoothly ?

For example - a door is usually about 1/4" smaller than the jamb - to allow the necessary play for it to open and close.

Thanks in advance.

[heartwood]

side to side--1/8" on either side...for top to bottom, the meeting rails of both sash
should line up on the same plane....what are you up to willa?

[Willa]

side to side--1/8" on either side...for top to bottom, the meeting rails of both sash
should line up on the same plane....what are you up to willa?

Thanks so much Jade.

Since the gasoline vapours are entering my house, even with the doors and windows closed (and storm windows), I assume they are seeping through the areas around the windows and doors.

I know for example that a door is approximately 1/4" narrower than its jamb, and about 1/2" shorter. This play is needed to be able to open and shut the doors. I had a blower test done before I had a new furnace installed, then again after in order to qualify for a rebate. This highlighted the worst areas, which I have improved. I don't have spring bronze weatherstripping at this time, but I do have basic hardware store weather stripping, door sweeps, etc. which have helped.

The inspector from the TSSA seemed perplexed at HOW the vapours are penetrating. This seems like basic science to me. When the wind is blowing from the north, I can feel some drafts around my north windows and doors.

I'm sure during the next meeting with the inspectors that the vapour infiltration will get blamed on "old windows and doors". Unless my house had 100% of the windows replaced with windows that do not open, and doors with vacuum like gaskets - there would always be some air leakage. Buildings that are too air tight get sick building syndrome.

I wanted the information from a professional to counter this argument. My doors and windows are functioning properly, like they were designed to.

You are such a big help Jade !

[phil]

even if it was sealed air tight , your house would still need a fresh air supply via one route or another. enveloping it in gasoline fumes sounds pretty irresponsible. positive air pressure from the other side of the house might make it leak out rather than in through the gas station side , but why should you need to do that?

[heartwood]

the problem is the placement of the vents...that's what they should be concentrating on to remedy the situation...that they installed them there in the first place baffles the mind!
good luck willa...don't back down!
...jade

[phil]

maybe Willa needs to fight back with a truckload of stinky fish, or something

[GibsonGM]

In my past as an environmental scientist, I'd be suspicious about how ACTUAL GAS FUMES are getting into the structure. Typically, a vapor isn't going to be transported across your yard and into the home by air...it just can't travel that far before being 'diluted'. If the vents are the issue, that NEEDS to be corrected, as it certianly is NOT legal to 'offgas' into someone home/onto their property. Do you know of codes re. distance they must be from a dwelling, property line, etc?

If an underground release of gasoline had occurred, a portion of that fluid can be transported with groundwater and migrate all KINDS of places you'd never think, such as under a basement floor; it's something I used to see routinely. I don't want to start your mind down a scary path for no reason - and there is NO data yet to make any assumptions - but could that be something to consider?

I don't recall how old you said those tanks may be (if brand new or above ground, HIGHLY unlikely to have leaked). Piping to the vents, could they have dumped *some* quantity?

If you think ANY 'gas fumes' are entering your house, your next move is to request real passive air sampling, as done using a Summa canister, for certified lab analysis. This will detect volatiles into the ppb level, and will either show you there IS no vapor migration to your home (the ideal case), that what you do smell is 'residual', from traffic/exhaust, OR that there is a major, major problem there. No matter, that's something that shouldn't wait. I am shocked the town/city hasn't done this...

[heartwood]

i'm impressed by your suggestion and knowledge Gibson and am surprised too that the town or gas station has
yet to take the measures you suggested...hope this helps you willa!
...jade

[GibsonGM]

TY Jade. I was in the enviro biz for a while, supervised the big refit down there in MA ca. 1998. I'm an old Clarkie, ha ha (Clark U). We encountered many cases like this, but they were typically old stations with single-walled tanks. A new station shouldn't be doing this, so your thoughts on the vents are spot-on. Unless, of course, it USED to be a gas station...they sometimes would leave tanks in-situ, or did not clean subsurface releases properly and so on. This can't be coming from fill-ups, esp. with vapor recovery tech...

I'm most 'concerned' that a city employee may have ok'd the vents in their location, and now will play CYA with respect to the problem they are potentially causing...

[GibsonGM]

Contacting the station at the CORPORATE level could be crucial, too. As well as any env. oversight company they may be working with - they usually are contracted with one even tho no 'problem' has happened yet, as a precaution. Tracking down the odor might give them something to do