Can you identify this?

[jmcdowell]

Hello,
We have been having moisture issues in our 1920's house, mainly the interior window trim paint bubbling and peeling off, and the upstairs floors warping, cracking and splitting, and generally feeling crunchy underfoot.

After several contractors seemed to be at a loss, we just decided to pick a room and gut it. We've found lots of issues, but none that I didn't really expect...
Except, I took up a few of the floorboards and I'm a little baffled by what I found.

The photo shows what we found. Whatever this is, it runs along the surface of the boards, and even up onto the shiplap on one wall.

Has anyone seen this before? Anyone know what this is?

[Lily left the valley]

Is that surface cracking of the wood itself, or is it perhaps the ghost of a plant that somehow worked its way in and suckered up the wood? Hard to tell from the image.

I'm asking about the plants because you mention how it runs up to one wall. Sometimes when homes are abandoned for a while, nature finds a way indoors. This reminds me of an image I saw once where an ivy got past a storm window in a home that was abandoned for--I think it was 20 years?--and then proceeded to trail up the window frame, and spread out to the wall and part of the ceiling. Trying to remember where I saw that.

[phil]

is it mold? does it wipe off? like as if you lifted boards in a wet lumber pile? maybe trails from insects? If you have condensation on your windows you have too high humidity. more ventilation or even a dehumidifier? look at the floorboards are they swelling up and humping due to the moisture causing wood expansion? maybe you need more roof vents or something?

careful if it's black mold. not good for you. Houses that are illegal grow operations get very high humidity. Here if a grow op is busted you can't sell the house without cleaning it up.. Im talking about people who fill the house with plants not just one or two.. sometimes they do a quick cover up and move and my worry is that could you have a house that was once a grow op? if thats the case maybe you have tell tale signs like leaves or hacked electrical systems.

how is the basement ? is it wet? do your basement walls have any white calcium stains indicating a wet foundation? does the concrete feel damp in some areas? maybe you need to remedy some larger issues with moisture? you can monitor humidity..
If it's mold maybe sunlight dry air. open the windows more. You might look into doing a treatment with an ozone generator. You can rent them. If you use one you have to clear out any living things, even house plants. no pets can enter the house during treatment. then run them 24 hours or so, or follow the instructions. then change the air before entering again because you don't want to breathe the ozone. believe me you won't want to breath the stuff.

the stupid little little air treatment things that are marketed to people with sensitive allergies and things filter and use ozone inside a living environment are not what I mean, they don't produce even a fraction of what a real ozone generator produces so dont; be confused by an air purifier

A real one will kill all the life in your house. they are also used to kill smoke smells etc. its a one time treatment you can do.
here is an example I don't mean to endorse any particular company, just an example..
https://www.odorfreemachines.com/suite- ... gKFR_D_BwE

it sure sounds like you need to change some environmental conditions , do you use a bathroom fan? a dank smell may accompany high humidity, You don't want to live in that if that's the case it may make you sick. If it's hot maybe an air conditioner could help as they do pull moisture from the air.

you mention cracking. wood expands and gets tight with humidity then when it dries it may crack and check. if the humidity swings a lot I guess that might show signs of cracking due to changes in wood size, but expansion doesnt' usually cause wood to crack..it makes it grow in a direction perpendicular to the grain. drying makes it shrink. drying causes cracks, during dry periods you will notice the cracks between your floor boards get larger. If a floor is exposed to high humidity it can reach a point where there aren't enough gaps to take up the expansion and then you can get floors humping up due to the pressure since the wood has to expand. This can generate a lot of force.

check the lines in the back of your clothes washer and the lines to your fridge if you have an ice maker.. check near the hot water tank. possibly there is an unnoticed leak?

one sign of an un-noticed water leak might be that the cold water pipe stays cold even when the water hasn't been run.. look at it early morning when you get up. If you did have a leak that was undetected you might notice the pipe were the water comes into the house is unusually cold, maybe sweating or even making a sound of water running because the water never stops completely. you could turn the main water shutoff off and see if that makes a difference to how cold or how wet the incoming pipe is first thing in the AM.. if that makes a difference then you might do more detective work to see why.

[GibsonGM]

Interesting. It does look 'planty', but hey...could it be cobwebs that got soot on them? I've seen that look in old houses, in crawlspaces and so on, where cobwebs had gotten "dusty" with it. If you wipe it on a rag, you should be able to note the diff. between plant, mold and cobs...

I agree tho...you need to get a few "humidistats"...you can find them in home stores for like $10 ea. Get 3, 4. Put one in basement, one in bath area, 1st floor, 2nd floor. Keep an eye on them, they will tell you much. Make records, maybe 2x a day, make a chart of values. Note temp. too (get humidistats w/temp readout too).

Some days, like now, you will see like 61% humidity, 75F temp. in 2nd floor. High, but this time of year is typical. It is 100% humidity outdoors (raining). If you look here: http://dpcalc.org/ we note that those conditions DON'T produce mold.

Winter is when it gets crazy....5% humidity outdoors, 3F degrees....you have 30% humid indoors, 68F....this can be a problem as air migrates THRU your walls, and hits the dew point, dumping water inside the wall (or roof, etc). But first things first!

Get the humidistats, check for open dirt in the basement (no-floor crawlspace), and tell us, is your heat forced hot water (radiators) or forced air? I've been all over these issues, I bet we can figure this out in short order. Phil is totally right, you may need to mitigate humidity/indoor moisture...VERY important.

[jmcdowell]

Thanks for the input so far.

My house is the first house entering into the historic district on the main street entering our small town square. It was definitely not a grow house in the past!
It was a realtor's office, a beauty shop, a gift shop and of course, a home in its past lives.

The house had been renovated before I bought it. Replacement windows, new plumbing, new kitchen and bathrooms etc. The washer and dryer that came with the house wasn't vented, but I installed a vent once I discovered that.
As soon as we got unpacked, we had a garage built, new fence, new deck, all new sidewalks, and 2 new central air conditioners installed. Shortly after all that work, the paint started bubbling up and cracking on the window trim.
Before the new air conditioners went in, the floors swelled and cupped, afterwards they slowly dried and got crunchy (for lack of a better word - you know they sound like they're splintering when you walk on them)
The house is only about 1800' but we have 39 windows, all but about 2 of them started the paint problem.
If it wasn't so universal, I would have thought it was a bad window job.

A few contractors came through and none of them really seemed to know the cause. One guy offered to strip out a wall and water test a window for a couple thousand dollars. After that I figured, I can strip a room myself for free and at least get an idea of what's going on.

So it turns out, we have a pretty bad window job, but there is also daylight coming in lots of areas, like under the wood window sills in small gaps in the stucco.

From the inside working out, we have shiplap, studs, shiplap, wood siding, stucco. When I took the window trim off, there was nothing between the inside trim and the outside trim. No insulation anywhere of course.

I think the moisture has been caused by a combination of water penetration AND condensation. Even though our air conditioners are dehumidifying (drain directly to the sewer line), we still have cool air hitting the hot humid Texas air in the walls.

Cobwebs and soot could be the cause of the weird black "veins". When we were taking the drywall/wallpaper/shiplap out we discovered 2 chimneys in the room. Both of them had old pipe holes in them that were poorly covered with tin sheets. So I know smoke could escape into the walls.

We know there is a mold problem too, and I wondered if these black veins could be some random fungus I had never heard of.

Now we're having to look into replacing all the floors on the second floor, probably have the exterior stucco and original siding removed, then new siding, trim and insulation. We'll pull out all of the drywall and remediate any mold we find too.

Sadly, by the time I get these problems solved, I'll be so upside down, I'll have to live here forever!

[Gothichome]

https://www.ews-group.nl/en/portfolio-i ... ar-fungus/

[Lily left the valley]

https://www.ews-group.nl/en/portfolio-item/cellar-fungus/

Reading the descriptions on that site, that does seem to fit the image. Given how wood rots in the wild, it's not a total surprise that this fungus would cause the crackling patterns if it has long since breached the wood cells. I really hope it isn't this, but so far it seems the most likely to one totally out of their element in a discussion like this. Good find, Gothic.

jmcdowell, does Texas have an energy program to help homeowners upgrade the efficiency in their homes? We have one in MA. That might help curb some costs as to sealing and insulation.

Also, did you talk to any of your old home owning neighbors about your find? One of them may have had something similar and be able to advise accordingly.

Now I'm curious if the land your home is on might have been one of those spots where they diverted or built over what used to be a natural water way or even a vernal pool or wetlands. We had looked at a home like that here in Gardner during our old home search. When the city developed that particular neighborhood, they diverted a creek underground, partly so they wouldn't have to build a bridge on a side street, but all the homes still had wet basement issues. I found out about it from the nice folks at City Hall. They even pulled up the plans that showed it.

[jmcdowell]

I'm afraid that could be the cause of the pattern. I'm not sure how widespread it is at this point, but it just confirms that we need to take out the floor boards. I think they're beyond salvation at this point anyhow.

We haven't talked about it with the neighbors yet, a lot of the homes have been renovated already so I don't know if they'll have similar experiences. Our house was definitely the ugly duckling of the block, but I'm a sucker for the charm of it.

We discussed it last night, and I think we're going to move forward with residing the exterior and having the walls and floors insulated and renovated.
At least the electric, plumbing and hvac are all new!

I'm pretty sure the land wasn't a wetland at any point. I've seen town maps going back to the early settlement and it has always been the main street.

Thanks for all the feedback. It's nice to find a website to discuss old house issues. I'm sure I'll have more as get further into the re-remodel.

[phil]

perhaps you could purchase a wood hygrometer. You could research various brands. It asicly has a couple of probes that you can stick into a piece of wood and it gives a numerical humidity reading. used by woodworkers who need to check their wood during drying and to make sure the humidity is correct before building stuff to see it change shape. I bet you could pop a hole here or there or pull an electrical box and do some spot checks. maybe it would show if you have problem areas before stripping stuff. Unfortunately since the mold may be a health issue living and working in the environment might be dicey. I won't get on a soap box but you could check into that before exposing yourself to too much of it so you can choose to mask up or wear white suits or move out during renos or assess any risks better. perhaps you could use temporary doors and things to separate your living space from the reno zone. Most of use here know what it's like to live with walls torn apart and it can get difficult. having at least one or two clean rooms to retire to can really help a lot. around here with the grow ops they bring in hazmat guys to deal with removal of old drywall etc. it isnt' any chemicals they are worried about its the resulting mold , these guys rent houses and do damage them when they start filling the house with plants and grow equipment and i know that isnt' the cause,, but the result sounds similar. be aware old drywall may have asbestos filler and you can have it tested . I had to test mine before I could discard as the drywall recycle wont' take pre 1980 drywall that isnt' tested first. rules vary by area. at least you won;t have moldy insulation. It might be worth ore research before beginning to focus on whatever is most important.

here we get lots of rain but not high humidity. at a point 20 years ago they started building stuff with what they called "california stucco" they tried to build to the property lines and disregarded the need for proper overhang of roofs and put too much plastic in the walls. in many cases the stucco leaked water got trapped in the walls and homeowners got stung financially and many said it was making them sick.

I think the main worry is of the mold spores getting in your lungs but it isnt' somethign I know lots about. Take some precaution before you go tearing into it because you can't evaluate the risks until you know a bit more about this. maybe a doctor would give a better understanding as to what the real risks are than any of us could.

[Lily left the valley]

I think the main worry is of the mold spores getting in your lungs but it isnt' somethign I know lots about. Take some precaution before you go tearing into it because you can't evaluate the risks until you know a bit more about this. maybe a doctor would give a better understanding as to what the real risks are than any of us could.

I second phil's recommendation. Mold spores are a PITA. Even if you are ripping out the affected wood, it wouldn't hurt to put up sheeting over doorways to prevent the spores traveling to other rooms. Completely clear out the room you are working in. Fabrics obviously will hold the spores more readily, but even sealed surfaces are a risk because the spores can be blown off just from someone walking by. Fans in windows blowing out too.