Interior - Painting Wood Around Windows - Caulk - Expansion

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historicalwork
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Interior - Painting Wood Around Windows - Caulk - Expansion

Post by historicalwork »

We are painting the stained trim in our house (lost battle with family). I'm still in this one bedroom and working on the trim around the three windows (and soon the doors). I'm scuffing the finish, plan to prime (Zinner Oil-based cover stain) and then paint (BM). Question - do you normally caulk at the seams for a clean finish? I think like many houses, seems our wood contracts and expands throughout the year. I see it looking better with caulk so there aren't dark lines but just wondering if it will pull apart at certain times of the year. Or, maybe it's about getting the right caulk. Just curious to get experiences. Thx.

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GibsonGM
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Re: Interior - Painting Wood Around Windows - Caulk - Expansion

Post by GibsonGM »

Great topic, Historical...the answer is...."sometimes". But definitely not always.

I'm a professional house painter, but in this regard there's no right answer; other answers may vary.

Can you post a pic of a typical area you're thinking about? See...my decision to caulk or not would be based on "how bad it is". If it's been caulked before, or if it's ragged, cruddy looking. A mild space around wood trim *can* be ok, but not if it's glaringly this huge gap. I'll often accept a small gap at the wall (say, up to 1/8")...but areas that SHOULD be joined (think, mitered corners), I will caulk as they will stand out very poorly if left open.

For a historic home (yes, prone to move), I'd consider a solvent-type caulk that will move better WITH the wood. Latex types only go so far, can only do so much, then they pull and go ragged. Sherwin Wms. "Storm Blaster" could be one option among many...tho exterior, will work fine inside but you'll have to clean the excess with solvent, and to hide "the caulk line". It expands remarkably well. LEXEL is another type I really like...synthetic rubber and is VERY flexible. Both are very sticky, might want to try on scrap wood first to get the jist of it...the 'finishing off' with cloth with spirits on it is what gets the nice line.

If you can avoid caulking the tops of baseboards where they meet the wall...well advised ;) Pic?

PS....while I'm sure the Zinsser oil will do fine...any reason to not use an oil prime by Ben Moore?

historicalwork
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Re: Interior - Painting Wood Around Windows - Caulk - Expansion

Post by historicalwork »

Thank you for the thoughtful reply on this. I'm posting below some random pics (just have an initial coat of primer on). Sadly, these rooms have crappy replacement windows from before our time in the house. I should add, I'm not after perfection on anything - that wouldn't match with the rest of the house. But, those larger gaps have such an obvious dark line when all is painted white and I think filling somehow would be better. On the BM primer, we live in the People's Republic of Maryland and I am limited to quarts (which might have been ok) or I go smuggle gallons across the WV border at a really nice BM store. I haven't gone to get the cover coat and just didn't get out that way before I got into the primer.

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GibsonGM
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Re: Interior - Painting Wood Around Windows - Caulk - Expansion

Post by GibsonGM »

Oh, YES, historic...you have beautiful woodwork, but those sorts of gaps will require attention for sure. No worries on the Zinnser, just seeing what was "up", tho 1 qt. of oil prime goes a LONG way, haha. You will be fine with what you have.

Ok...So...My gut tells me some of those gaps need some attention. Some examination is in order...can any be pulled back into place with some creative nailing? Sometimes things pop loose. If any of the trim is like that, you'd of course take care of that first. What you show does look like drying, effects of time.

Next: If the gap is more than, say, 1/8" or so wide...I like to push some backer rod in there. You can cut it length-wise, or any other way, to fit. A razor knife is great for this. Stuff like this, avail. most hardware stores or online. I bought a reel for work. https://www.ebay.com/itm/3-8-Closed-Cell-Foam-Backer-Rod-2100-Ft-Expansion-Joint/173132818469?hash=item284f852825:g:-nMAAOSwZtJW8s6n

Get the backer into the big spaces w/a putty knife or other thing, recessed about 1/8" to 1/4". This saves on the amount of caulk, and can help limit the "goop effect". You do not want goop look here. Doesn't have to be totally solid, just in there enough to back up the caulk you put in. Sometimes, there will be a void behind the backer, and that's ok. It looks like most of your work won't require backer, if you're lucky, but some probably will. Don't get 2,000 feet, just a package will work! The backer also limits how much caulk you have to put in...contrary to popular belief, more of this is NOT better....a nice layer like 1/4" deep is great. More does not help.

Talk to Sherwin Williams...you want a VERY flexible caulk (zero modulus) like Lexel, IMO. They have something like this. Must adhere to your oil prime, and be (latex) paintable. They'll set you up. Like I mentioned, it will likely be solvent based, so clean up w/mineral spirits. You'll develop a technique where you tool it, and also wipe the joint with a cloth containing a Light amount of spirits, to remove the 'seam' look of the caulk (to make it fade from view, so to speak). Don't soak the wet caulk w/spirits or you'll mess it up.

It is good to make a 'card'...something in the shape of the joint, like a rounded 90 degree stiff cardboard or plastic from a laundry detergent bottle, to tool the joint with. Shoot the caulk in to fill the joint, 'tool it' smoothly, then use the rag w/solvent to clean the edges, without really touching the filled center. You'll get it quickly after you do a few in a less visible area :) Keep your hands clean, it helps. Just do a bit at a time....10" at first, then 24", then later you'll do 4'. If you get a 'hole' as you go...maybe let it go, come back when it's all dry and 'fix' it. You have a lot to do, so don't expect perfection on the first pass. But 1 pass will make a huge difference.

Save your tube of caulk, if not done, by jamming a nail or screw into the tip and "sealing" it up with some of the caulk on the outside that overspilled. Pull the nail/screw later, push some caulk out...if it's jammed, ram a pc. of coathanger in there 10x and try again. Won't work for long periods, but day to day it will.

There, now I sound like phil, LOL! Hope this works, let us know if you have questions! Looking good so far!

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Re: Interior - Painting Wood Around Windows - Caulk - Expansion

Post by heartwood »

because your question is about windows, I thought i'd pipe in....because it's also about caulk, it's better that I don't...
I do not like using caulk at all...that said, a situation presents itself and you are the one who must look at the gap if it is not somehow closed...I think GM offers excellent feedback...
good luck!
...jade

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GibsonGM
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Re: Interior - Painting Wood Around Windows - Caulk - Expansion

Post by GibsonGM »

Yup, it's a 'damned if you do' thing. You don't want to sit and look at those gaps, but caulk has the potential to pull and go ragged.

Take it slowly and thoughtfully...usually, you'll be ok if you don't go wild and fill the gaps with the backer first. I suggest doing 24" or something like that, and waiting a couple of days to see how stable things are.

Just remember that caulk is the last resort! ;) I don't like it either, but there's often no choice. Usually, if you are careful, you will forget it's there a week after you paint. Don't scrimp on the caulk, it will be nearly $10 per tube but well worth it.

historicalwork
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Re: Interior - Painting Wood Around Windows - Caulk - Expansion

Post by historicalwork »

Really appreciate the helpful response. I have some of the backer rod - use it to go under our leaky doors! I didn't think about using it - I really appreciate the advice on this. I'll look first to see if there are opportunities to tighten up any trim boards. Then I'll look for the right caulk. This may be a dumb question - would you go ahead and fill/caulk the gaps and prime over? Or just finish priming and then just top coat? Didn't know if there was any advantage.

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GibsonGM
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Re: Interior - Painting Wood Around Windows - Caulk - Expansion

Post by GibsonGM »

Sounds like you're getting the plan together. Yes, that backer is useful for ALL kinds of stuff! Making gaskets, too!

Your priming first was actually the right thing to do...especially if this were outdoors. Outside, when (not if) the caulking one day fails, you will still have prime behind it to protect the wood. Interior...doesn't matter very much, but I still like to prime, then caulk. I tend to prime all sides of a board, even inside, tho it may not matter inside...I just feel it makes them expand less. A non-issue in your case, as your wood is already installed, LOL. Oh - let the oil prime dry about 2 days before caulking so when you clean with a touch of spirits, you don't wipe off the primer...

Just be sure whatever caulk you get is paintable, and you can go right over it. Start in a forgiving place so you can get the hang of it...the good-sticking solvent-based caulk is, like I said...goopy ;) But worth using, provided one can give it a wipe to get a nice finish.

historicalwork
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Re: Interior - Painting Wood Around Windows - Caulk - Expansion

Post by historicalwork »

I wanted to follow up on my thread. First, while I did end up getting the SW caulk, I haven't used it yet. Will report back. I did prime all my trim with two coats of Zinsser Cover Stain. I'll make one note on that. The Gallons of Cover Stain at Home Depot is low VOC. And I have to say that stuff went up so thick it was annoying. I went back when I needed more and got the quarts - which were not low-VOC and the paint spreads much better. It was more expensive in quarts but I didn't all that much more.

To my second question which I know will bring on various opinions, I'm a fan of Ben Moore paint. The options here in Maryland for anything oil-based are limited. For the trim and doors, I wanted to use an oil base. But perhaps I'm too caught up on the idea of the oil base providing that much of a harder finish for those areas. Clearly my options are greater with non-oil. Just curious what others think as it relates to window / door trim and the doors themselves. I can make a drive to get oil options but would prefer not to if the difference isn't there.

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Re: Interior - Painting Wood Around Windows - Caulk - Expansion

Post by Willa »

I used Benjamin Moore Advance, which is a water based alkyd enamel. It is on the trim, wainscotting and doors in my kitchen, and on my stairs. I used the high gloss finish.

My experience with it has been very positive. It drys to a hard finish - none of that latex gumminess. I was fretting as some surfaces in the house had not been properly prepped by the PO, so their coat of latex on top of old oil had poor adhesion. In any areas like this on trim, I scraped and peeled what I could off, gave the surfaces a good scrubbing with TSP and sanded. I used the adhesion primer BM recommended, gave that ample drying time, then painted. The consistency of Advance is very good, it is low odour, and dries faster than a solvent based paint. The one thing that is strongly recommended is to to give 16 hours drying time between coats. I followed all the instructions and the paint has performed beautifully. The only bummer is that it is a little pricey.

I painted a light color over an almost black color on my stairs. I have cats with claws, who do fun chasing games up and down the stairs, so there are some claw skid marks from that, and predictable wear on the treads. However, compared to the hassle of using a stinky solvent based paint and the longer drying time, the performance in a hard wearing area has been good IMO.

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