screen door ideas?

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phil
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screen door ideas?

Post by phil »

I want to make a screen door that is also a security door. The idea is to take 1/4" steel plate and cut out most of it , leaving enough material to be substantial enough so it can act as both a security and a screen door by attaching the screen later.

a while back someone posted someone similar and the term Park Avenue was used, it was kind of a deco style.
What I'm looking for is a design that reflects the craftsman style.

I'll need to use some design software like solidworks , or something to create the two dimensional ( I guess a vector file) and there might be a bit of a learning curve for me to do this.

I have to repair the burning table often enough that we can probably throw it on as a test. Its a CNC machine where a plasma torch follows the graphics and it will cut that out very accurately in short time.

this link shows various artwork done this way. I'm kind of looking to copy some existing ideas since I'm no artist. they aren't for resale or anything.
Would anyone have any ideas what sort of design would fit with the Craftsman house theme?

https://www.google.ca/search?q=cnc+plas ... 95&bih=424

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Mick_VT
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Re: screen door ideas?

Post by Mick_VT »

I'd be looking at designs by Charles Rennie Mackintosh
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Gothichome
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Re: screen door ideas?

Post by Gothichome »

Phill, I think you may be recalling Daniels poarch door he installed in the Old Vic. It was a custom made security screen door.
C00B75E0-1EA7-4DC0-AB7F-EA9BD031A81E.jpeg
C00B75E0-1EA7-4DC0-AB7F-EA9BD031A81E.jpeg (101.51 KiB) Viewed 832 times

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TexasRed
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Re: screen door ideas?

Post by TexasRed »

Phil, If I read your post correctly you are asking for craftsman style design ideas for your door?
If I’m mistaken, disregard this post. :lol:

We’ve been looking at combination storm/screen doors for our screened back porch. I realize you will be using metal, not wood. These are just for inspiration. The best selection of design ideas are here;

www.vintagedoors.com/craftsman.html

Hope this helps. Craftsman style is generally simple straight lines, easy job for a plasma cutter. Good luck, sounds like a cool project.
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phil
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Re: screen door ideas?

Post by phil »

part of the beauty of using plasma is that I could go really ornate, bit then again the craftsman style dictates simplicity. kind of like this :
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/0b/ba/5d/0bba ... -homes.jpg


im not sure Im crazy about the doors Gothic posted. they are secure and nice, just not for me. Maybe to get more ornateness I would need to break the rules a bit and go more folk or Arts and Crafts. Im starting to think down the lines of a simple pattern of squares or diamonds since I have diamonds on my upper sashes, ti could tie into that. for an inner "frame" and then maybe just an outline of a tree in the center. Since my house is built of fir, and stands where many large fir trees grew it could be a fir tree. or a landscape of fir trees but not the simplistic and overused "christmas tree", but maybe more what You'd see if you looked upwards through a stand of tall fir trees, or something.. that woud look more complicated and the complication makes the thing strong witout being too heavy. some artwork I have always liked is a simple row of roses with them going up about 2/3 the way and that makes an impentarable border as they cross and tie into each other without being too heavy. the pattern needs to e open enough so I dont; end up with a 1/4 inch steel door, but rather a 1/4 inch piece of plate with about 80 - 90% of the material removed.

this search showed a lot of line art with elements I could use but a lot isnt' really craftsman style.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=craftsma ... R7osIEeCzM:

the problem with fir trees, they are evergreens so you end up with big blocks like this
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... Ef5xNaRlSg

too heavy!

Coniferous trees might look more like this
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_JiEwHutPb_Q/T ... d-tree.png

the trick is to have just enough metal left that it's strong but not so much that I have a 200 lb door. Also I can't have elements floating in no where, they need to be tied together at some point.

sharpness could also be an issue I guess.. I;d have to smooth all the corners somehow so people didn't cut themselves or get little fingers stuck in there, The screen would help a little.

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Re: screen door ideas?

Post by SweetCottage »

The Gamble House in Pasadena, CA. is the ultimate Craftsman mansion. I toured it almost 20 years ago. There is great photography on their website and some very cool details. The carpenters were clearly at the top of their game! http://gamblehouse.org/exterior/

I also second Charles Rennie Mackintosh for excellent geometric details. I toured the Glasgow School of the Arts a couple of years before it burned. It was heartbreaking to learn that the stunning library was destroyed (but being rebuilt). http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Glasgow_School_of_Art.html
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Re: screen door ideas?

Post by phil »

such beautiful doors ! they really make a statement. Incorporating house numbers might be nice too. My door is original but it's just a pretty normal door with 6 panes. I wouldn't care to change it but a well designed screen might be ok. I'd like to be able to open my front door for the breeze but to keep it locked securely because it isn't always in my view due to my closed concept layout. a lot of the time I want more air but I don't want my cat to go out. I still get mail through the door and it's one of those little tiny slots mailmen hate but it's original. It would be nice if it had an opening for that in the right place.
Last edited by phil on Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: screen door ideas?

Post by phil »

this one is kind of neat. It is a bit too heavy but anyone at your door would both admire it and also know they aren't getting in easily. It allows you to have a conversation with a sales person without being rude and talking through the door.. until you open it you dont; know if maybe it is just a neighbor who wanted to talk to you or someone with bad intentions, or a pushy salesman. this one doesn't have a screen but I see no reason why it can;t be both a bug screen and security.. most of the off the shelf screen doors are anything but secure. Maybe in other cities secure doors are more common.

I think if it is done right it can be light enough that it isn't barricaded like a fortress but still offers a lot more security than just a door and it isn't too damaging to the authenticity of the building since it can easily be removed. It needs to have a secure latch that is easy to open in case of fire. Maybe just a regular doorknob?



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Re: screen door ideas?

Post by Lily left the valley »

Phil, I'm falling asleep as I write this, so if anything doesn't make sense, just tell me what I muffed up and I'll explain better when I'm awake.

You talk about your screen door in very specific terms, so look at that first to come to a decision about the proportion you want between positive and negative space. Once you have that figured out, then you can move on to the actual design because it will shape your design choices.

You mention social/(air)circulation as well as privacy/security. Think of your screen in terms of open social (primarily top line of sight portion of the door plus whatever), and closed security (primarily bottom portion of the door plus whatever).

What feels right? Your home is fairly traditional for a bungalow, so let's start with a typical screen door similar to the catalog page you posted, but doesn't have as much "cut away" as those on the bottom which you disliked both for security reasons and waste of materials.
Image

Now think of that door's trim as you would the trim in the "public" rooms in your house. It makes sense to me that trim proportions of the rooms you would share with friends, say the living and dining, could be tied into your screen door.

So think of those two rooms: is the trim at chair rail or plate rail height? Is there extra fancy Lincrusta, wood, burlap, or painted plaster beneath said rail? The first could help you find a starting ground proportionately for the visual "framing" of your screen door, and the second how formal or informal you want the design to be.

I did a quick and dirty shoop so you can get an idea of my meaning...I used the wood door from the house in the image above, and then altered the scale a bit. The tree slat design of the door itself is not the focus here. Think negative/positive space available overall.

First, each door in mini below if you want to enlarge them individually.

Image Image Image

Now the larger image with them side by side.
Image

Once you figure the proportion that feels just right, then you move onto picking a design that works with same. Again, you don't have to base this off of my "think abouts". If your gut is strong with something, run with it. You just seem a bit at sea with narrowing down choices, so I'm sharing a few different ways to think about why you might make specific choices based on what you've actually said so far.

From looking at the thread, I think you might find something that sparks you in a more direct fashion by looking at stencil sources like this one: http://www.stencil-library.com/stencilcatalogue.html. For that site, I would suggest looking at the motifs first, then the stencils for corner details and such. The borders may help some, but those and the repeats may be too much cutting than you might want, compromising the metal. Also consider how many of those stencils anticipate multiple colors, so look at only negative/positive. Don't get allured by color contrasts, even if only gray scale.

Lastly, keep in mind what you want to mirror or differ with the actual front door. Do you want six perfect "lights" openly boxed so the six on the front door aren't lost behind the screen? Or would you prefer to see the front door behind the screen door as a gazebo is partially hidden behind an apple tree, where only bits and pieces can be seen if not completely obscured by the branches?

Anyhoo. My two sleepy copper. If I just made things worse, I'm sorry. Just trying to show a different way to approach a project. :sleeping-sleeping:
--Proud member of the Industrious Cheapskate Club
--Currently pondering ways to encourage thoughtful restovation and discourage mindless renovation.

phil
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Re: screen door ideas?

Post by phil »

Thank you Lily!
you know I hadn't even thought of how the window lines up and that is a really important thing. It can look to have a custom fit with the design taking the mailbox and window placement into consideration.

Also It just dawned on me that maybe I could cut the steel out and laminate it with wood veneer , or parts of it. Vacuum bag it with epoxy maybe. If that will take the sun. Ill have to look into if that can be done without delamination. If so it could appear wood, but still have the strength of metal.

I also like the pic you chose , with the silloette of the trees, they look like fir trees and without being too busy.

Ill spend some time looking at patterns and things, a simple pattern diamonds or squares and rectangles like in the other craftsman screen doors could help emanante the style, perhaps leaving the center for a bit of art of some sort, but it can't be be really flowery and overly ornate or it'll look too busy. I can see how an opening with a siloette of a tree could cover the window without blocking the ability to see out.

I'll give this more thought, no rush. and Ill find out what file type they need so I can try to get set up with appropriate software. I think solidworks, I can probably get a trial version, or something. learning a little about that won't hurt me. I might have to fumble until I get working in whatever software I need.

I could also intentionally incorporate some rivets, they are cheap and easy to do and give a sense of the past. they could even be brass or copper and that could help it not be so perfectly flat. Ive got some nice good sized strips of brass and heavy brass angle and that might add a little glint and class to it. maybe it could have some brass strips to capture and cover the edges of some metal screen, even brass screen.

I have some heavy bronze mesh. it was from a paper making machine so it is sort of looped and quite thick. more like a fireplace screen but even thicker and more fine wires. you can't really see through it but it would let some air pass, maybe that could be used on the bottom portion and lighter screen on top near the window. I have to do the fireplace mantle cover so maybe it could have some tie in with whatever that could be. If I use some combination of metal and wood there it could help with the distance of the wood from flame and fire code rules without being tile. maybe if I used brass or rivits it could tie in..

another trick might be to add some silver solder or brazing over the metal art, I'd just heat it up and add flux and it's basicly just like soldering only hotter.. so just like you can tin a copper fitting with solder, you can do the same with silver or brass, on top of iron.

some glass could be nice but If I dont; use glass it wont; get broken accidentally. I have some broken panes in the door probably from people tapping with keys and things because the house is so dead for sound from knocking due to the layout.

Ive got an old steamer trunk outside. its going rotten and it looks neat but it's thin wood and rotting.. I was thinking of chucking it but I think it has some beautiful old looking ornate hinges and a latch,, maybe that could be part of it, and it's free. I should have a look and maybe remove them.
Phil

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