Window Hardware Help

Need advice, technical help or opinions, you will find plenty here! (Technical posts here)
Post Reply
ColonialRevivalPete
Settling in
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:39 pm
Location: Southwestern IL

Window Hardware Help

Post by ColonialRevivalPete »

Currently working on a large widow project. How large you ask? Pretty large. I have 17 (8 lite) wood windows that are ready for paint stripping and hardware for all windows as well. This part is getting contracted out. I am doing the rest myself. That's the project.

Now the Problem.
The problem is That I have some wood casement window hinges that need some replacing. (circa late 30's early 40's) They are on their last legs. Corrosion primarily. I tooled around the local salvage shops looked online and so far no luck. If I have to I will get them fixed at a later date.

If any one can give some guidance it would be much appreciated.

Photos:
Attachments
20170823_110929.jpg
20170823_110929.jpg (1.2 MiB) Viewed 412 times
20170823_110920.jpg
20170823_110920.jpg (1.23 MiB) Viewed 412 times
20170823_110942.jpg
20170823_110942.jpg (1.4 MiB) Viewed 412 times
20170823_110911.jpg
20170823_110911.jpg (1.15 MiB) Viewed 412 times

User avatar
Willa
Revered expert in almost everything
Posts: 1369
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:46 pm

Re: Window Hardware Help

Post by Willa »

You can cook the hinges in water and TSP which will melt the paint off.

This won't help with the corrosion but will give you a clearer idea of the condition, as well as what the hardware actually looks like. If they are cast iron, Ospho will remediate the rusted areas.

Do you need casement window latches ? I have a dozen in bright brass that came from my cabinets. If you are interested I can send pics ?

phil
Has many leather bound books
Posts: 4616
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:11 pm
Location: Near Vancouver BC

Re: Window Hardware Help

Post by phil »

remove the paint how you wish. I'd just take them outside hold them with pliers and heat them up with a blowtorch but you can boil them if you want or use stripper or a wire wheel on your electric drill..

Then use "Naval Gelly" there are several makers, home depot and most hardware stores will have it loctite makes it , so do other brands just buy whatever brand you find cheapest locally. automotive places will have the stuff too.

you can brush on , wait a bit and hose off and repeat if it's stubborn. What I would do with those because they are little you can, just put some naval gelly in a plastic container and immerse them for a while , then take them out and hose them off. after that you can use metal primer and metal paint of just pick up a spray bomb of "Rustolium" or any automotive type metal paint like that. if you are fussy and want to get rid of the rust pitting marks then you can give them a coat or two , let it harden up and sand with fine paper or steel wool and re-paint and that will fill the pitted areas.
now when you put them back the screw holes will match. if the screw holes are enlarged just dip some wooden toothpicks in wood glue stick them in the screw holes and snap them off to fill the holes so you can start again with the screw holes in the same locations.

replacing the hardware is possible but you wont' find this too difficult. if you bend them , just straighten them out again.

after they are clean and painted put a drop of oil on the pins and work them free.

If the pins are too worn they can be drilled out and replaced with larger pins.

If they are just a bit loose you can tighten the pins , they are just rivets so you can just use a ball peen hammer and a hunk of metal to support the other side. I'd just stick a big bolt or a piece of iron bar in my vice and use that to support the opposite side from the side you are hammering on. You might want a little resistance so they aren't too sloppy but don't tighten them so much they are too hard to move because that is hard to undo.
if you need to do this, go slowly with the hammering. I probably over explained tightening the rivets I just wanted you to know that if you need to tighten or loosen them or replace the pins it's possible. they look rusty enough that if some windows haven't been opened for a while you might bend them with the leverage of the window while trying to access the screws. I'd probably put a few drops of oil around the pins before I even started to take them off , once you get them to move a little the oil will get in and they will free up.

If they are rusted up and you can't open the window try to get them free because it is possible to force the window and you'll have a lot of leverage on the pin and you could break them if they are too stuck and you force them. If they are stuck put a little oil and you can tap on them and wiggle them and be patient with that rather than getting aggressive end bending them up or snapping them off near the pins. even if you bent them up and broke pins and stuff that metal is easy to weld and you can fix them, or go see a welder or machinist and get them to help.

you can put a dab of grease on after the oil it will hang around longer but dont' go crazy or it's just a mess.

I wouldn't replace those, they just need cleaning up.

Those aren't cast iron , they are just mild steel , they are stamped out from flat metal using a punch press and special dies to produce the shape.

don;t splash naval gelly in your eyes or get it on your skin, it's a strong chemical. and if you go burning paint dont start a fire or inhale the paint smoke.

if you wanted to go "all crazy" you can use sandblasting to clean them and you could have a chrome shop nickle plate them but then you are into paying people to do the work. plating won't fill the pitted areas so they use copper plating to fill the pits and polish that and then plate them. or instead of paint you could give them to a place that does powder-coating I think that's all overkill. I tried to explain it in a way that you can do it yourself. if all that is too much just see if you can find a local welder , machinist, milwright, ironworker or even a blacksmith , they would all have the skills to help.

ColonialRevivalPete
Settling in
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:39 pm
Location: Southwestern IL

Re: Window Hardware Help

Post by ColonialRevivalPete »

Well it seems I sort of helped myself. After further research on the web I did manage to come across the original catalog for the same exact hardware as I have on my casements. The originals were made by a company called Win-Dor based out of Chicago.

https://archive.org/details/Sweets1938Sec169CasementHardwareCo
https://archive.org/details/ThingsYouOughtToKnowAboutCasementsWindows

It would be nice to find some original hardware or reproductions of these. I could use the spare parts. If anyone has some or where to find some just let me know.

@phil
The hinges work fine. Just need some oil. I am taking them in with my sashes to get dip stripped as I do not have a lot of time to get this done. Winter is coming soon would like to get the windows installed before this happens. After I get them dipstripped i will check out the condition of them and probably take them to a local weld shop to have a new flat piece welded on so i can attach the corroded ones back to my frames. Some of the west facing ones are in bad shape especially the bottom ones. After that a quick powder coat in flat black to make them look nice again.

@willa
I have all the latches. Thanks for the offer. They just need a little clean up.

heartwood
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1603
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:44 pm
Location: western mass

Re: Window Hardware Help

Post by heartwood »

not to rain on your parade but dip stripping is not a good idea especially if the solution is a 'hot' dip...the 'hot' refers to lye which must be neutralized after application...dipping tends to leave the wood in tough shape and remains in the joints...I have seen doors and windows that come from the dip strip shop and they are not pretty...
just a word of caution...all good things take time....
...jade

User avatar
Mick_VT
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2437
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:39 am
Location: Central Vermont
Contact:

Re: Window Hardware Help

Post by Mick_VT »

+1 on the dip stripping. I have seen a victorian front door disintegrate one year after dip stripping. It removes the glue, loosens the joints and has the effect of adding 100 years of "no maintenance" in an instant. Sashes are not hard to strip, just brush the with paint stripper and leave overnight. The effort will probably be less time than the trip to the dip shop and back twice
Mick...

phil
Has many leather bound books
Posts: 4616
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:11 pm
Location: Near Vancouver BC

Re: Window Hardware Help

Post by phil »

I had a friend that was getting doors dip striped and he said the shop he was using stopped and refused to do it. the issue was that they would get one door that had silicone in it. I'm not sure if it was furniture polish or maybe silicone calk , but that would then contaminate the tank of chemicals but they wouldn't know it until customers started coming back complaining that they were trying to finish them and had issues with fish eyes from the silicone.

Not sure about lie, that's caustic, but if I use any acids to clean metal what I like to do is clean them in hot baking soda and water and then just warm them up with a blowtorch ( or put them somewhere warm) to drive the water out and then paint immediately before rust starts up again. that just makes sure there aren't remnants of acid down in the voids. the powder coaters might have a system they use. maybe they can just sandblast or glass bead them right before they send them through.

when cars are painted they often use a metal etch to clean the metal after it's stripped and right before painting, and I dont' know if they usually neutralize that.

the powdercoat will work nice, it has good scratch resistance. you can't use fillers or paint to fill any pitting and you cant; recoat it to build the surface like paint. the process puts a charge on the metal and the paint particles have a charge so they attract each other like a magnet, then it goes through an oven. the paint won't attract to filler or contamination. I guess you could use lead, like back in the days before bondo, they used lead for filler. I think you might be able to powder coat over that but it would add time to the process.

I like using the epoxy paint like Imron. you can put it on thick because it sets up chemically not by offgassing like most paints. so that will fill the pitting, and it's sandable but tough like the powdercoat. It is available as a satin black primer so you wouldn't need to topcoat.

changing colors when powdercoating means an extra charge to clean the equipment and changeover the powdered pigments. I'd call ahead they may schedule certain colors on certain days

Handing it to a powdercoater sounds like it might be the fastest way out.

a welder could likely build up the thickness through welding and grinding to thicken it up and restore strength around the screw holes without needing to add an extra piece on. He might also be able to fill the pits with braising rod.

ColonialRevivalPete
Settling in
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:39 pm
Location: Southwestern IL

Re: Window Hardware Help

Post by ColonialRevivalPete »

A Little update on the windows folks. I'm definately not done by a long shot. This summer I should have it done. The light at the end of the tunnel is approaching. All windows have been stripped. I had them steam stripped. All windows are squared up. There was only a handful thankfully. There was one window that had severe rot. That has been remedied with a few hours of custom millwork and the long process of finding the right router bit for the edge profile. Thankfully, I saved the old studs from the kitchen remodel and used bit of those for the new rails stiles and mullions.
I have begun glazing. Seven are done only ten left. Unfortunatley, summer and fall ended too quickly. As soon as the weather starts cooperating I will be out there glazing again. I will have the hardware restored in March sometime. Then the fun process of painting, weatherstripping and hanging will begin. The outdoor fixes have been mostly completed as well. What that means is the peeling paint and loose frames have been fixed and primed, just need to paint those Oh joy!!!! We havin' fun yet!?!

Post Reply