Need advice for 1930s farmhouse

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Trevor
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Need advice for 1930s farmhouse

Post by Trevor »

Hello,

First post here, so hopefully I'm in the right place. Our family has a farmhouse that was built, as near as we know, in the mid-30s (we are not the original owners). Our family used it as a summer cottage, so it's not currently lived in. No electricity, no plumbing.

The house has been neglected for quite a few years; I don't think it's been painted since the mid 80s(!). The siding is dry and brittle, and the stain has all but washed away. However, the interior of the house is in very nice condition, and I hate to see it rot away, so I've been wondering about what I can do to preserve it, or at least stop it from degrading further. Actually, I'm mostly wondering what I should do with the house: leave it be, fix it just enough to preserve, tear it down and re-purpose the wood, or maybe even find someone to take it away intact (which has been suggested).

Here are the issues that I'm aware of:
    Bees: honeybees have been nesting in one exterior wall for 7+ years.
    The roof: there are no missing (asphalt) shingles yet but they are definitely curling and degrading. Was replaced probably in the late 80s.
    The siding: dry and brittle and starting to fall off. Woodpecker holes along one entire side.
    Kitchen floor: slowly sagging into the cellar, as the cellar was never ventilated properly. A small vent was added sometime later, but it was likely insufficient.
Those are the major ones, otherwise the house seems to be in pretty good shape. The interior wood is in very good condition. I know there was a carpenter ant problem back in the late 80s, but I don't know if they're a problem now (how do you know, other than seeing ants or termites or piles of sawdust?).

Given the overall condition, I'm not even sure where to start. I think my first priority is to evict the bees, as I figure that will at least prevent further damage and give me time to figure out what to do with the house. I've found someone to come and remove the bees, but I have no idea what will be exposed when the exterior is opened up, nor how I need to prepare for patching it up (both short- and long-term). I live 5+ hours away and only get there once or twice a year, so I have to plan for quick and efficient repairs (and I'm definitely no craftsman).

What am I facing? Has it gone too far and am I looking at a money pit? I hate to see something that old be wasted ("old" being relative), but then I don't know if it has any real value (I don't mean money, I mean as far as 1930s architecture and construction go), other than purely for sentimental reasons.

I've attached a few pictures, hopefully large enough to enjoy and to show details.

I look forward to any comments or suggestions!

Thanks,
Trevor
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The bees are nesting within this wall, where the siding is missing.
The bees are nesting within this wall, where the siding is missing.
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1918ColonialRevival
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Re: Need advice for 1930s farmhouse

Post by 1918ColonialRevival »

It looks like a nice little retreat.

The first thing I would do would be to deal with potential for water intrusion and get rid of the varmints and bugs. The roof looks like it's on it's way out, so I would replace it and close up the holes in the sides (this will likely require replacing some clapboards here and there). I'd also investigate why the kitchen floor is sagging. Is it just from natural settling or is there something more sinister at play like termite or water damage to structural members?

All things considered, it doesn't look too bad to have been sitting unused for 25+ years. Sentimental value means a lot. If I had a cabin that was in my family for some years and there were a lot of good memories there, I'd definitely hold onto it. I don't think it's a money pit because it's not all that big and there's no plumbing or electrical that needs work. What's there appears to be structurally sound. The roof will likely be your biggest expense as far as "have to"s go. This house looks like it may have always been a cabin for hunting or vacationing.

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Lily left the valley
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Re: Need advice for 1930s farmhouse

Post by Lily left the valley »

One thing to consider and which you don't mention at all is--what's your budget? One person's money pit is another person's weekend poker money that they can afford to dig into with little thought. Budget should dictate as much of the work you are willing to do/have done so it doesn't become a money pit, as you fear.

From what I can see from the photos you posted, this doesn't look like a tear down to me, however I'm sure you will find innumerable folks who will swear on their mother's graves it should be. It seems a lovely get away, and I do hope you keep it, as I think it can be enjoyed for many years to come.

I concur with 1918's list of considerations. As to the sagging, it could be settling, and since you don't know whom built it, it could also be as simple as it was never properly supported from the get go. When you are in the cellar, and look up, are there any obvious spots where a cross beam may have, say, slipped off a sill or support--whether wholescale or in part? Yours might have slipped over time if it is a settlement issue. I saw a few beams like this in a 1860 servants' quarters I managed, and I was constantly on the owner about getting an engineer in to look at that and thus plan to get the issue fixed, but he never did. The issue may be as "simple" a fix as getting vertical supports put in, and again, a structural engineer would know for certain. You may be able to put in what they call the temporary hollow posts (metal), but most code requires cement filled if you do not use structural lumber posts or columns. From the outside images you posted, I don't see a tell tale center sag in the roof line, but the dormer might be hiding it. If there isn't one, that's best case scenario in that it means only that floor (kitchen I think) needs some attention.

The best way to get an idea of what you may need to patch right away after bee removal is talk to the beekeeper about their planned or typical process. Whether they are going in from the inside or outside, for example. Also be careful in that if they need to enter from in the inside, that may require pulling down a lot of wall or ceiling material, depending on how big the hive is and what your walls are composed of (gypsum board or lathe & plaster). You'll want to make sure you at least have tarps/sheeting in case you find any formerly undiscovered water intrusion points that become much more obvious once those bits are open. I don't know how far the home location is from a local hardware store should you need whatever supplies. I also don't know how handy you might be (you do mention you're not a craftsman, but that doesn't mean you can't do basics either), nor what sorts of tools you have or not. So you may want to hire a local handyfolk or contractor to come by as well to discuss what may need to be done.

Once the bees are out, that would be a good time to have a pest inspector come because you likely will have more openings than normal, so they will be able to inspect more. Most companies charge a nominal fee for such, and many will then take a portion off a first treatment/plan if such is required. If you have other neighbors in that area, talk to them about pest issues they may have faced and when last. That will also help give you an idea of what could be lurking. It might be that the carpenters only happened to be an issue after a series of overly wet years, for instance, and now haven't been since the weather has been more normalized. It also could be that since the maintenance slipped, exposed wood that wasn't normally may have been their entrance.

There are many posts about bloop for long untreated wood. I'd say to at least do that much for the time being to help the wood heal, and start sealing it back up. If you have limited time to spare for finishing work like bloop and painting, that may also give you a layover coat until you can come back to do final finish layers. Here's a recent thread about windows in particular, but will give you a sense of what I'm saying: Manalto's Exposed Wood Thread.

Whatever you decide, I hope the process goes well, and please do keep us updated or ask more queries as needed.
--Proud member of the Industrious Cheapskate Club
--Currently pondering ways to encourage thoughtful restovation and discourage mindless renovation.

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GibsonGM
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Re: Need advice for 1930s farmhouse

Post by GibsonGM »

Hi,

Is it on a crawlspace? If so, odds are moisture got to the floor...try to get in there and investigate, and take PICS! :) When I hear of floor issues, no water pouring in on it...I think moisture from below; perhaps no plastic on the floor (if it's a crawl). Are you good with DIY, think you could fix something like that? Could also be (as suggested) as simple as shoring it up. Where are you located - is it very rural or near town (will you need a permit or a just a good neighbor with a bottle jack)? That difference can turn a $50 job into a $1,500 one...

It looks like a nice spot with potential. The bee issue is probably best left til Oct. or so when they go dormant (I'm sure they've been there a while already...), but it sounds like you have the people to take care of that. And like Lily said - probably find out how extensive the intrusion needs to be! Other pests are pretty easy to identify if you have some building background (?), or call the Orkin folks...black ants running around = carpenter ants that eat damp wood. Make it not damp, no carpenter ants...you're about right there, if you see them, piles of sawdust, then they are there. They usually make their presence known ;)

I think you can do something with the place - it is a unique little family spot that could be very enjoyable! But if you don't have some background with this stuff - or can't pick it up quickly anyway - it could cost you some for sure. Honestly, if you haven't done "Hard Painting" (scraping, picking, sanding by hand etc), I'd think replacement...saying "you're no craftsman" makes me think you'd be utterly disgusted at 2:00 on day one, LOL! Painting that place may be about as much as re-siding it, IMHO. I see that gable end needs some replacement, at min...

Tell us some more about the place! Is it insulated? How long a ride it is for local ppl to work on it will factor in - where is this? Can you afford the ultimate unthinkable - new roof, siding, and some extras?

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Re: Need advice for 1930s farmhouse

Post by Greenwood »

Hi Trevor,
I like the way you think! The house has value beyond its real estate, and the photos show glossy and nicely maintained woodwork, perhaps Douglas fir?
But it doesn't sound like you want to restore it/keep it for your own weekend retreat, at least at this time. Do you have a reason to keep it in the family?
If other family members want to keep it or you can foresee a time when you might want to use it as your own retreat, or even if you just want to defer your decision-making on it, could I suggest you fix the concerns you noted - sagging floor, roof, gaps in siding, and bees, and any other obvious gaps or loose siding on the exterior, and then put up plywood over the windows and a padlock on the door. Inspect the house once a year yourself and have someone out occasionally to cut grass in the summer.
Keeping the elements out will assist the structure in surviving its dormancy.
I'm happy you've considered this little house as something more than a hindrance.
Good luck!
Andrea

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Trevor
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Re: Need advice for 1930s farmhouse

Post by Trevor »

Thanks all for the input, much appreciated! I'm about the only one in the family who sees value in preserving the house, as I think it's a pretty nice piece of history. And the interior woodwork is stunning (everyone agrees on that point). It is located in central Alberta, and because it's 5+ hours away from where I live, it's a little hard to get out and enjoy; by getting there only once a year, most of the time is spent cleaning/opening up and then closing down again. Luckily my dad always boarded up the windows, which has probably helped preserve it a bit (though some of the window panes are cracked).

For budget, sadly I can't really justify doing what I'd LIKE to do: new roof, new siding, shore up the floor. I haven't really come up with a hard figure of how much I'm willing to commit, but I'm contemplating a new roof at least -- I know that if the roof fails, the rest will be gone. But then, if the siding goes, ... or the floor caves in, ... Also, because of its location and even though there are neighbours reasonably close, vandalism is a worry and we'd hate to spend a ton of money on restoration only to have it trashed.

So far there is no sign of the roof line sagging. I've been told that we're fortunate the house was built on a concrete foundation, as those were quite new at the time, and that likely has helped keep the house solid. The kitchen floor has been falling in for as long as I can remember. The cellar is more of a crawlspace, not as large as the house footprint but it does go under the kitchen. My dad was always saying it was inadequate ventilation causing the floor to rot. I haven't looked down there, but maybe it's time to have a look and then I can ask questions about how to deal with that. It's usually pretty dry country, so ground water is not usually a problem.

The interior is lathe & plaster, but I'm hoping (the plan is) we'll be able to deal with the bees from the exterior. I have no idea if there's insulation, or whatever else is within the wall.

As for DIY, I don't mind getting my hands dirty, I just find I don't have the finer skills in home repair, ha! Like caulking or finish sanding. But I've painted houses before (both interior and exterior), including cleaning, sanding, patching, priming, top-coating -- though it may not be craftsman quality, I try to pay attention to detail. So the work isn't daunting, it's just the amount to be done and the limited time (and the lack of hands-on experience).

Location is in the midst of farmland, with the nearest (and small) town 15 min. away (they at least have a general hardware store). The bigger centre is more like 45 min. away, so not bad (no worse than having to go across the city). Clean-up is somewhat of an issue, though, as there is no running water, and no holding tank or septic system or such to handle wastewater (like from painting or cleaning).
1918ColonialRevival wrote:This house looks like it may have always been a cabin for hunting or vacationing.
It was built as a family house on a working farm, and I think it raised quite a large family. Our family bought the land in the late 60s, and the house sat unused for about 20 years, then it was used as a summer recreational cottage.

@Lily, Thanks for mentioning bloop, I was going to ask as I had been reading through some threads that mentioned it, including Manalto's thread on windows. I had been wondering if it'd be worthwhile slapping some on the siding, or if the wood was past all such hope and just needed to be replaced.
Lily left the valley wrote:help the wood heal, and start sealing it back up
Really? ... is it possible for the wood to "heal" and not have to be entirely replaced?

@GibsonGM, according to the bee folk, the earlier the hive is moved, the better luck they'll have reestablishing themselves before winter (I found someone who will relocate the hive, not just exterminate it).

@Greenwood, I'm not sure what the wood is, and it really hadn't been maintained at all inside! I don't know if or when the finish was redone, but it's lasted very well.
Greenwood wrote:put up plywood over the windows and a padlock on the door. Inspect the house once a year yourself and have someone out occasionally to cut grass in the summer.
Hah! Actually, that's exactly what we've been doing all these years!

Questions:
  1. where does one buy replacement clapboard? Is it just standard issue stuff from the lumber yard? I have watched a few videos on replacing clapboards, and I think I could manage that although I'm worried the existing boards are so brittle they'll break easily when handled.
  2. I'm pretty sure the siding was stained last, not painted. I like stain because it doesn't peel, but I know it doesn't last as long. Does using blop rule out using stain later, or is paint the way to go anyway?
Thanks again, everyone. I feel much better about the idea of working towards preservation as you've made it sound doable.

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GibsonGM
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Re: Need advice for 1930s farmhouse

Post by GibsonGM »

Hi Trevor,

It's probably daunting, but you might be able to do some stuff on a budget. I'd suggest getting as much info as you can (as you are it seems) before you do much...

1) siding comes from a lumber supply yard. You might try to find a 'handyman' or carpenter up there to suggest a good match for what you have, and to determine how much needs replacement. Really hard to tell from pics how bad it is, and how much needs to go. If you DIY that, Youtube vids are good for learning the technique! Bring a piece with you if you take a trip to the stock yard. New will never match, but that's ok. It could be spruce or something, which may take a bit to source out, so ask where you live first. Cedar is pricey; my preference would be to use something not quite so fancy, such as pine, as this is not the Taj Mahal.

2) Stain is definitely the way to go, 2 coats. If you can find an oil based penetrating stain, that would be my suggestion. The blop can help somewhat 'restore' the wood, keep it from getting drier until you can stain, but won't last forever as a preservative...think of it as a pre-treatment after you clean up the siding. It won't "heal" per se, but it can help the wood accept new stain better, which is going to protect it. Chances are it's not quite as "gone" as you may think, just old and dry. Before you put anything on it, it needs some washing where it has 'algae', drying, then hand-sanding where it is rough...wire brushing where it is black and 'gone'. Hand work.

The crawlspace probably needs to have plastic put down on the ground surface. Read up on venting - it's not always a good idea! In your case - unheated structure....it may well be, tho. Check around the 'sag' with a screwdriver, see if there is softness & the presence of mold, damp, punky wood. If you're lucky, it will really just be sag, and a new sistered beam (like, a couple of 2x8's) can be put in, and the floor jacked up a little with no fuss. That's your time to check for pests, too! This is not usually anything one needs an 'inspector' for or anything (lol)...but you WILL need a local with carpentry background to establish a relationship with as you live so far away...

Rules: don't ever paint or work on damp, wet siding....definitely no caulk on untreated siding, or that has gotten damp behind it (if it downpours, you have to wait days til it dries out again). It is tempting to 'get going' the day after a rain...that's where real issues can start! It takes patience and time to get stuff like this done...you'll have a lot of research to do, but I think this is do-able...

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Lily left the valley
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Re: Need advice for 1930s farmhouse

Post by Lily left the valley »

Trevor wrote:{snip}@Lily, Thanks for mentioning bloop, I was going to ask as I had been reading through some threads that mentioned it, including Manalto's thread on windows. I had been wondering if it'd be worthwhile slapping some on the siding, or if the wood was past all such hope and just needed to be replaced.

Really? ... is it possible for the wood to "heal" and not have to be entirely replaced?
Heal in the sense of it's been dying of thirst and likely suffered at least a bit of shrinkage as a result and the wood cells are a mess because they've been unprotected for so long. The holes (woodpeckers, bees, whatever)--that can't be fixed with bloop. Cracks or any missing bits won't suddenly spring back to new either. Understand that the vast majority of my knowledge regarding bloop is from this site, and reading folks' experiences with and expertise on such. Gibson already chimed in with more about this branch of repair as well as the siding, so I'll leave my response to this much.

For what it's worth, I'd be rather surprised if there was insulation of any kind. You might find builder or tar paper behind the siding unless someone put in 1/4" sheet insulation at some point. We have a layer of that between the wood and AC siding that we think was added in 1981.
--Proud member of the Industrious Cheapskate Club
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Greenwood
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Re: Need advice for 1930s farmhouse

Post by Greenwood »

Hi Trevor,
It's too bad you have to make all these decisions by yourself. But I think you get from the responses here that the house is worth stabilizing. Could you set up a 'weekend working bee' of family and friends to take care of the issues you've identified? Or hire a few locals for a weekend.
And if it's sat for many years as is (with the steps you and your dad have taken to protect it from vandalism), it can sit until next summer too if you don't get it all done this summer.
Andrea

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GibsonGM
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Re: Need advice for 1930s farmhouse

Post by GibsonGM »

Lily, you're right...I didn't mean that 'heal' is wrong, only that it's a "pre-treatment"...good to nourish that dry stuff! It wouldn't take stain very well as-is...giving the new stain a decent substrate to slowly penetrate into will give MUCH better results!

Yes, Greenwood...the place won't fall down in 1 year. It's sat a very long time and still looks viable...a plan of attack is needed. Losing the bees would be good, and diagnosing the condition of the crawlspace (don't forget sills...)...painting/bringing back the siding can wait a bit, altho I'd consider siding repair soonish if possible to avoid more water infiltration.

Probably it's not insulated...if it was, I'd expect to see real damage from water on the inner walls...

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