How to remove the upper sash?

[MJ1987]

Hey all,

Im in the process of rehabbing my upstairs bath and moved on to the window phase. I'm a little perplexed about how to remove my upper sash. The lower was a cinch: pop out the stops, swing the sash in, remove the ropes and tie off so they don't recede in to the point of no return (though my windows don't have removable sash pockets so that's a drag).

The next step, logically, would be to remove the parting beads. This is where my concern lies. My meeting rails are angled, presumably for a tight fit when they're closed and locked. But the angle on the top rail prevents me from pulling the parting beads out since it overlaps. I'm having a bit of a hard time explaining this, so let me know if it's unclear. Pics below.

[heartwood]

yup, looks like your sash are ready for some work!

the top sash needs to be all the way down to remove the parting beads..."fat chance for that, the sash are painted in place!" you may say...fear not, if you are diligent the top sash will succumb to your patient efforts...

if you can indeed pull the top sash down all the way to the sill, grab the parting bead at the top (we use sheet metal pliers with a 4" jaw) with a set of pliers...if you plan to keep the beads, place a paint stir stick on either side of the bead then grasp with the pliers and gently rock back and forth...parting beads often do break so you may want to plan on replacement...so, once you grasp the bead at the top, wiggle and pull toward the center of the opening...if the beads come out in one piece, you are very fortunate....you may need to purposely break them to get them out...

once the beads come out, the top sash may still be painted in place and refuse to budge...with a putty knife, reach behind the meeting rail and pry the left and right sides to break the paint...grasp the sash at the joint of the meeting rail and stiles and rock back and forth with a downward motion....it may take a few tries...

if the above does not work, you may need to remove the top stop/trim to access the top of the sash...there should be enough room to get your pry bar between the sash and the top of the jamb...work the bar from the left to the right and to the center until it finally budges...

hope the sash comes out easier than expected...good luck!
...jade

[Graywings]

My meeting rails are angled, presumably for a tight fit when they're closed and locked. But the angle on the top rail prevents me from pulling the parting beads out since it overlaps.

Yep, that's how these old windows were designed.

To get a stubborn upper sash to drop, I have drilled a hole in the center upper rail of the sash, installed a screw, and hung a gallon of paint on a wire to put steady downward pressure on the sash. This was after cutting through paint and making sure there were no nails or screws holding it up. Sometimes an installed storm window frame is screwed in in such a way as to go into the sash ever so slightly.

I thought I had taken a photo of the paint can setup, but haven't found it yet.

From your photos, your windows look to be in the typical bad shape we see here. If the parting bead is brittle, it may not survive the removal. In that case, you could sacrifice the parting bead and muscle and chisel it out. That would make it easier to get the upper sash out. I have lost many parting beads.

[Jeepnstein]

You can get it apart. Either use a window zipper or get the electrical equivalent. I got my oscillating multi tool from Harbor Freight for around twenty bucks. Get a couple of saw blades and scrapers for it and you'll be set. I have both the half moon and straight blades and use both when doing an old window. Works like a charm and saves lots of trim from breakage.



I don't even attempt to save the original parting beads. It's easy to make.

[Mick_VT]

I think I might be the only one who does this kind of job with heat - I soften the old paint with a heat gun as I go at it with other tools - seems to result in a lot less breakage. I would clear all the old paint away and get that sash lowered right down if possible before going at cleaning up, then lastly removing, the parting bead

[MJ1987]

Thanks to everyone for the advice!

I'm happy to report that under a few layers of paint was a hidden sash weight pocket. Other than saving me the hassle of removing the trim to replace the chains/cords, it actually enabled me to get the upper sash out. Once I removed the pocket cover, I brought the bottom angled rail down to even with the opening on the frame. I used my slim Titan pry bar to get between the rail and the parting bead. With gentle pressure, the sash gave just a bit (was careful not to put too much pressure on the rail so as not to stress the glass) and I was just barely able to shimmy the parting bead out. Once one parting bead was free, I could easily free the sash. I've heat gunned and stripped the upper and lower sashes, popped them in the steam box we built, removed the glass and putty, sanded and stained the insides of each sash. I also gunned and stripped the parting beads, stops, and frame. Tomorrow, I'll clear the inner sashes and prime the outter side. This all takes an insane amount of time but they're looking GREAT! Pics to follow ASAP.

I'm with my brother in the City for treament this afternoon/evening, then headed to Lavalette on Saturday for a much-needed vacation for about a week. Looks like work won't resume til the 16th...

[phil]

Im going to have to tackle this same thing pretty soon, and was thinking that when I do I'd just use about a 1/2" drill and make swiss cheese out of the bead so it comes out easily and then cut a new one. another trick is to drive a woodscrew into it then use a pry bar with a hole in it and a block to pry against in order to get leverage to pull on the screw.