Porch Decking wood species

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Olson185
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Re: Porch Decking wood species

Post by Olson185 »

1918ColonialRevival wrote:
Olson185 wrote:In 2013 we put in 5/4 T&G doug. fir. on three covered porches (1 @ 1st floor & 2 @ 2nd floor). Each board was given one coat of primer, on all sides, and installed wet with a 2nd coat along tongues and grooves. After installation, a 2nd coat of primer was applied, allowed to dry, and then a single coat of porch paint applied.

Now I'm seeing some hairline gaps from board shrinkage. In heavy trafficked areas, as well as areas that do get rained on (edges of porch and the steps), the paint is starting to flake revealing the primer beneath. My main "experiment" was to see if cupping would occur (it isn't) and test the durability of the inexpensive ReStore 'seconds' paint (it's doing fine). Before Winter, I'll prep, prime, and paint a more permanent, durable finishing.



A gentleman who was a professional painter for over 50 years once told me that there's such a thing as too much primer. He told me to always stick to a single medium coat of primer, followed by two top coats of good quality paint. Paint is something that you get what you pay for. Lower quality paint won't be near as durable, especially in an exterior application. Spend a little more for better paint and you won't be having to re-do it near as often.


I wouldn't take his advice. Both his experience and the products he used are out of date and don't pertain to what is now readily available.

In fact, I would never take the advice of a professional painter as its usually based on a set of priorities that don't apply to a DIY homeowner. All pro painters swear by Benjamin Moore because it's not their money buying it and they're more concerned about a quick application that's less likely to lead to call-backs. A DIY homeowner doesn't have those concerns.

A porch floor should always have two coats of primer so that minor scratches or wear won't expose the raw wood so easily. We applied just one coat of paint to better gauge its quality because so many pros say Behr sucks and only Benj. Moore will hold up. We find that's just not true. Five years on the house and four years on the porch and it's performing very well.
~James

Fourth generation in a family of artists, engineers, architects, woodworkers, and metalworkers. Mine is a family of Viking craftsmen. What we can't create, we pillage, and there's nothing we can't create. But, sometimes, we pillage anyway.

phil
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Re: Porch Decking wood species

Post by phil »

I would check Craigslist materials too. If you do that with everything you buy it is surprising. maybe someone else planned a porch , bought all their lumber and then plans changed. you can save lots. you could even use a mis-tint for the first coat if it is a good brand and suitable and not so far off what you want, why not? if you are lucky you might even find something like good old leaded paint or at least not water based crap. you can find high quality commercial coatings you just aren't going to see in home despair. or good old oil based paints from before the enviro craze made them last less time. Sometimes people store stuff like that a long time and they are happy to sell it for a fraction of the cost or even offer it up for free. I have no qualms about using old paint as long as it isnt' latex stuff that's been frozen. You can usually tell before you use if something doesn't look right. oil based paints dont' usually go bad from age.. not that it's impossible but if you can stir it up and do a test and it looks fine , then it's probably still just fine to use.

often you can use the craigslist finds to make up part of it and then buy new stuff for the balance of what you need.

1918ColonialRevival
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Re: Porch Decking wood species

Post by 1918ColonialRevival »

Olson185 wrote:
1918ColonialRevival wrote:
Olson185 wrote:In 2013 we put in 5/4 T&G doug. fir. on three covered porches (1 @ 1st floor & 2 @ 2nd floor). Each board was given one coat of primer, on all sides, and installed wet with a 2nd coat along tongues and grooves. After installation, a 2nd coat of primer was applied, allowed to dry, and then a single coat of porch paint applied.

Now I'm seeing some hairline gaps from board shrinkage. In heavy trafficked areas, as well as areas that do get rained on (edges of porch and the steps), the paint is starting to flake revealing the primer beneath. My main "experiment" was to see if cupping would occur (it isn't) and test the durability of the inexpensive ReStore 'seconds' paint (it's doing fine). Before Winter, I'll prep, prime, and paint a more permanent, durable finishing.



A gentleman who was a professional painter for over 50 years once told me that there's such a thing as too much primer. He told me to always stick to a single medium coat of primer, followed by two top coats of good quality paint. Paint is something that you get what you pay for. Lower quality paint won't be near as durable, especially in an exterior application. Spend a little more for better paint and you won't be having to re-do it near as often.


I wouldn't take his advice. Both his experience and the products he used are out of date and don't pertain to what is now readily available.

In fact, I would never take the advice of a professional painter as its usually based on a set of priorities that don't apply to a DIY homeowner. All pro painters swear by Benjamin Moore because it's not their money buying it and they're more concerned about a quick application that's less likely to lead to call-backs. A DIY homeowner doesn't have those concerns.

A porch floor should always have two coats of primer so that minor scratches or wear won't expose the raw wood so easily. We applied just one coat of paint to better gauge its quality because so many pros say Behr sucks and only Benj. Moore will hold up. We find that's just not true. Five years on the house and four years on the porch and it's performing very well.


The person who told me this is a close family friend who just recently retired from the business, so he has been familiar with the changes in paint products over the years. I've followed his advice for years and have never had an issue. His work spoke for itself - I've seen houses that he painted 15 years later and they still looked good because he properly prepared the surfaces, used high quality products, and didn't rush the job.

As for paint brands, I've used Behr before and it's ok, but I like Sherwin Williams paints better for exterior applications, especially the Emerald line. It isn't cheap, but from my experience, it runs circles around the other exterior paints out there. Glidden is what I would call average and I don't care for Valspar or Dutch Boy (both seem a little thin and don't cover as well). I've never used Benjamin Moore for a major application so I can't comment on them either way. Again, you get what you pay for, as most Valspar and Dutch Boy paints tend to be a little cheaper than the others listed here. This is based on the type of weathering we experience on the East Coast in the Mid Atlantic region.

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Vala
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Re: Porch Decking wood species

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Some of our porch floor wood was replaced over 10 years ago before we moved in, based on the sticker on the underside of the porch boards, they used VG Douglass Fir. We still have some original porch floorboards, which are getting to be in worse and worse shape, and will need to be replaced. We would probably go with the fir when the time comes. The old boards warp in the cold weather like an accordion and the ends of some of them have broken off from rot.

I would never use modern garbage pine for anything. 20-30 years may seem like "a long time" but it's not a long time when the house itself is 100+ years old.

1918ColonialRevival
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Re: Porch Decking wood species

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Vala wrote:I would never use modern garbage pine for anything. 20-30 years may seem like "a long time" but it's not a long time when the house itself is 100+ years old.


For most applications, I'd agree. Maybe it's because porches in the East tend to take a real beating, especially the closer you are to the ocean, but I've not seen an old house in this area that still has its original boards on its porch. That's not to say they don't exist, but they're rare if they do. Our side porch was last redone in the 1980s and it's to the point that it will need it again within the next couple of years. Looking at some old pictures, the porch before the one we currently have went on in about 1950, so 30-some odd years seems to be the life expectancy in this area.

I'd love it if there were a source for old-growth lumber that was sustainable. I see the porch as the Achilles' heel of the house and I've accepted that it's something I'm going to have to re-do every quarter-century or so. Sure, I could spend a lot more money and get better wood that might weather a little better, but with my budget it would mean sacrificing somewhere else on the house.

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Re: Porch Decking wood species

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Price means a lot. You can still get nice tight grain vertical grain fir if you want to pay for it. they are still barging tons upon tons of big logs down our coast. lots gets cut to square logs then shipped overseas lots to japan.

in the 50's that stuff was cheaper but you are shopping now. since it isn't easily shipped I'd look locally and I wouldn't even discount the newer man made materials like composite decking or materials that you might get at a discount on craigslist. If you have places that reclaim old house parts check there too. You could find old flooring or maybe the floor of a gymnasium. Pine isn't the best but if it's sealed well and it is a wrap around so partially covered and I guess a hard question sometimes is how long will you be in the home. I've seen 1" pressure treated decking with rounded edges, maybe that would fit the budget, look nice painted, and not rot?
If that space below is just non used space an option could be to not put flooring that will deflect water but instead put a sort of "roof" just under the decking so when water lands there it drips through and comes back out away from the house or into drainage. a lot of the choices might depend on distribution maybe you have a local place that supplies imported materials to cabinetmakers and woodworkers? sometimes these places aren't public store fronts on the main drag but tucked away in commercial distribution center complexes. they may be set up to import materials through their supply chains. in the end you need to compare pricing per board foot and then you'll know what your choices are.

Olson185
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Re: Porch Decking wood species

Post by Olson185 »

Vala wrote:Some of our porch floor wood was replaced over 10 years ago before we moved in, based on the sticker on the underside of the porch boards, they used VG Douglass Fir. We still have some original porch floorboards, which are getting to be in worse and worse shape, and will need to be replaced. We would probably go with the fir when the time comes. The old boards warp in the cold weather like an accordion and the ends of some of them have broken off from rot.

I would never use modern garbage pine for anything. 20-30 years may seem like "a long time" but it's not a long time when the house itself is 100+ years old.


I've been noticing that mitered perimeter trim, along the edge of porches and steps, is rarely used any more. Wicking is inhibited and repair is easier if one is dealing with a piece of trim rather than the full-length boards. Porch Trim Band

Image
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Fourth generation in a family of artists, engineers, architects, woodworkers, and metalworkers. Mine is a family of Viking craftsmen. What we can't create, we pillage, and there's nothing we can't create. But, sometimes, we pillage anyway.

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Re: Porch Decking wood species

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1918ColonialRevival wrote:
Vala wrote:I would never use modern garbage pine for anything. 20-30 years may seem like "a long time" but it's not a long time when the house itself is 100+ years old.

I'd love it if there were a source for old-growth lumber that was sustainable. I see the porch as the Achilles' heel of the house and I've accepted that it's something I'm going to have to re-do every quarter-century or so. Sure, I could spend a lot more money and get better wood that might weather a little better, but with my budget it would mean sacrificing somewhere else on the house.



The problem then is if someone else ends up with the house and doesn't want to redo it with wood then ends up tearing off the porch and replacing it with concrete... That's why I would personally go with the quality wood. The fewer times anyone has to rip it up or change things, the better. Of course people still do stupid things like concrete porches anyway but I digress..

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Re: Porch Decking wood species

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Concrete isn't necessarily period inappropriate to a turn-of-the-century house, though the popularity of it back then varied by locality. I believe it was more popular in urban and suburban neighborhoods than in small towns or rural areas. I grew up in a smaller town and you didn't see too many concrete porches on houses built before about 1930. My portico is concrete with a tile inset that's original to the house. I know of one neighborhood not far from here (one of the first pre-planned subdivisions in the US) where a lot of the houses have original concrete porches. Some have tile and some don't. Most of these houses were built in the 1890s and 19-oughts. Some of the houses in my neighborhood (1910-1925 mostly) have original concrete porches. The only reason mine is wood is because there's a room underneath it that was originally a wine cellar.

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Re: Porch Decking wood species

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I was talking about remuddling an old home with a concrete porch because it changes the character. You know along the lines of siding, plastic windows, etc..

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