Porch Decking wood species

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TexasRed
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Porch Decking wood species

Post by TexasRed »

After surrendering to "we are in over our heads" with projects, we hired a contractor to tackle some of the bigger exterior repairs. I admit it is nice to see so much progress in a single day, although mostly still demo at this stage.

He wants to start from the ground up, so first project is repairing porches. Our wrap around porch has several columns that are sinking (for lack of a better word) due to some rotting porch decking as well as occasional rot in some supporting framing. Some decking boards are okay, some not. I don't especially like the look of repairs where 1/3 of a length of a 10' board is replaced - resulting in seams. With this in mind, he suggests we go ahead and replace all of the decking.

We want to use a quality wood that will last but not blow the budget. Don't want cheap pine tongue and groove that is going to twist & warp like a PO used in a few places. :eh: Original decking is awesomely thick - 1" to 5/4" on back porch (species is either cypress or LL pine, depending on location). We know we can't afford to replace with like material, nor could we likely find enough reclaimed decking. Online searches for t&g porch decking results in; vertical grain fir, mahogany, cedar, cypress and ipe :crazy:

What type of wood did you use or recommend?
Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge and suggestions.

I'll post some pictures as soon as I get a chance.
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JRC
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Re: Porch Decking wood species

Post by JRC »

I had my porch floor replaced almost exactly 4 years ago. For budget purposes, I went with 5/4" t&g pine. But, I also applied, with a brush, two coats (per mfr. instructions) of opaque deck stain to all surfaces of each board, before installing them. (priming into the groove side was the most tedious)

I know it's only 4 years, so I have no way of knowing how they'll last over the long term, and if my pre-priming will have helped. But, so far, so good.

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Re: Porch Decking wood species

Post by 1918ColonialRevival »

T&G pine should last a long time, provided you treat it when you install it and keep up with the maintenance. Unfortunately wooden porches and decks are some of the areas of a house that take the most abuse and there's really no miracle product out there that looks right with an old house. Provided your weather isn't too extreme, you should be able to get 25-30 years or more out of a T&G pine porch if you take care of it.

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TexasRed
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Re: Porch Decking wood species

Post by TexasRed »

Thanks for sharing your choice to use pine t&g. It does seem to be one of the less expensive options.

I failed to mention the pine decking available locally is thin - 3/4" or less (?). The lumber store manager even mentioned it would twist and warp unless it is installed immediately. I interpreted that statement as a fair warning of it being wet/green. He says the same about the 3-1/4" double bead board the store can order. Such a shame. I have both that I've removed recently that are perfectly flat and true after 112 years. Hard to imagine trying to patch in anywhere with the new stock. :problem:

I see JRC used 5/4 pine. In my mind this would certainly be more stable than a thinner variety. Perhaps my opinion of pine has improved a little based on your experience.

1908 What did you "treat" your decking with? In the end, our decking will be painted, can I prime the entire board before installation and then apply 2 coats of paint to the top side once installed?

Thanks again, I'll try looking for some other sources in nearby towns.
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Re: Porch Decking wood species

Post by OurPhillyRow »

Just because it isn't stocked locally doesn't mean you can't get it. I had 600 linear ft of 5 1/2 x 7/8 poplar t&g beadboard custom milled in PA for wainscoting in my 1910 kitchen renovation in NY. There was nothing off the shelf that cane close, and because of the quantity, custom milling got me exactly what I wanted, delivered to my curb, for a fair price.

Check around, there are nearly always mills within 100-200 miles that can do it for you.
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Re: Porch Decking wood species

Post by 1918ColonialRevival »

If it's going to be painted, just make sure that you have a good primer base on it and it should be fine.

Devyn brought up a good point - you can always have boards milled if you can't find anything off the shelf that's suitable.

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Re: Porch Decking wood species

Post by JRC »

I didn't order my porch floor boards, the guy doing the work did. (he's sort of the go-to guy for neighborhood porch repair/rebuild) But, I'm pretty sure he had them custom milled. The owner of the house next door had his porch rebuilt, but used a different guy. They only used 3/4" t&g boards, and there is a definite difference in feel.

FWIW, after the floor was laid, I went back and brushed on two more coats of the same deck stain, tinted to the final color. Then, after the first year, I applied another coat, because the floor had seen some heavy wear from more construction, movers, etc. Finally, in 2015, I applied the current coat to the floor, after stripping the railings and balusters. Except for being a little dirty, (I made the mistake of choosing a light gray, which shows dirt really well) the floor and finish seem to be holding up well. (no peeling, despite all the coats of stain.)

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Re: Porch Decking wood species

Post by Olson185 »

In 2013 we put in 5/4 T&G doug. fir. on three covered porches (1 @ 1st floor & 2 @ 2nd floor). Each board was given one coat of primer, on all sides, and installed wet with a 2nd coat along tongues and grooves. After installation, a 2nd coat of primer was applied, allowed to dry, and then a single coat of porch paint applied.

Now I'm seeing some hairline gaps from board shrinkage. In heavy trafficked areas, as well as areas that do get rained on (edges of porch and the steps), the paint is starting to flake revealing the primer beneath. My main "experiment" was to see if cupping would occur (it isn't) and test the durability of the inexpensive ReStore 'seconds' paint (it's doing fine). Before Winter, I'll prep, prime, and paint a more permanent, durable finishing.

BTW, I did the same "experimental" application of Behr Exterior Premium Plus Satin on the porch railings and spindles (two coats primer & 1 coat paint). The paint is intact except for the porch step railing post caps that extend beyond the protection of the roof. Not bad with one coat and 4 yrs. of exposure.

Also, our (temporary) white picket fence has been up for a little over a year with just two coats of primer and it's holding up fine. It's made of cheap, ready-made picket panels of pine; we're saving up for making a better fence that doesn't have so many knots and splinters.
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Re: Porch Decking wood species

Post by phil »

my neighbor used IPE or somethign similar. it is very heavy but the rot resistance is really good. it's more expensive but it's really nice stuff.

what causes issues on porches mostly is water drainage. You need the slope or gaps of 1/8th or 1/4" so to let the water drip through. You can use heavy wood and if it collects water then it will rot and rot won't really take longer to go through something thick. its usually about the slope and thinking about how it can shed and dry out. if it is allowed to drip below than maybe you dont' want to close it in too much.

when they lay the planks , if you put them heart side up ( look at the grain pattern on the ends) then as the wood dries and the boards cup the cup will be down. otherwise they will roll slightly and keep pulling the nails.

T and G probably looks best and if it isn't wet then maybe it's a good option. but it isn't good for letting water through if you need that to happen.

my front partially covered porch was T and G. the wind would blow snow and rain in there and it would drip to the little storage room below. the PO had put plywood sheeting. My back porch was plywood sheeting with a rolled on membrane coating.

I replaced both front and back with new sheeting and went with fiberglass. It wasn't' expensive or too difficult and it made the storage spaces below bone dry. On my back porch I cut an inch off the posts as it didn't' have enough slope. make sure you check the slope and it should slope away from the house.

I can really only use fir or something like IPE or pressure treated outdoors because we get a lot of rain. any pine or spruce or the kind of building lumber you find in home depot will rot very quickly. If you are susceptible to termites maybe the IPE would be good at repelling them.

I love the fiberglass, it's so easy to maintain and sheds the water completely but it is an obvious trade off in the historic look of planks or T and G. You need new plywood for fiberglass.

cedar is good for rot but it is soft so marks easier. I'd go thicker if I used cedar, but if you dont' mind the marks even just using rough cut planking with a stain might be ok.


even though you have a contractor , I'd consider visiting a lumberyard and seeing what they have to offer price wise and do some comparisons of what you can get locally and then when you talk to the contractor you will have a better idea of the price per board foot so you will have some idea how much he's marking it up. the lumberhard will know what most people are using locally.

If it's green lumber dont' paint it until next year or your paint wont' stick well. The IPE has a sort of greasiness to it that isn't good at holding paint so you could consider stain if you go that route.

5/4 fir is nice but that might be a lot more expensive than pressure treated lumber.

you could consider using a moisture meter to check your lumber. even if the contractors do the work you might prevent them from using green stuff or painting it before it's dry internally. the lumberyard might even be able to specify the moisture content of their lumber before you buy it.

if you go with T and G it is important to know if it is green and expected to shrink or if it is bone dry and expected to swell and possibly buckle if it gets wet. then as you lay it you can use that info to decide how tight you want it. If it isnt' T and G a common mistake is to lay them too close. if the air can get to it it will dry out faster and rot less. capillary action pulling water in probably causes more structural issues than anything and it's easy to think gravity will look after drainage and forget. anywhere you double up lumber you have an area where capillary action may be an issue. If you lay T and G and just the ends get wet they can suck up water like a straw and buckle or rot.

if you are looking at plywood also look at marine grade plywood. it wont' del-laminate so easily and it's likely double the price but still might be less than planking. If you are going to paint it anyway who cares if it's plywood it will be a painted floor anyway.

personally not a big fan of paint. If you use stain it wont' peel. something like sickens stain would be last better.
we get lots of rain here and lots of decks have the vinyl. it comes in 6 foot wide rolls and needs to have the seams welded, they use a heat gun to melt it together. I'm not a big fan of the vinyl but it is super common here as it does shed the water rather than letting it down into the structure.

you have a different climate.

plywood and a roll on coating are probably the cheapest option. If you walk into the big box place and get that roll on stuff it will be complete crap, but if you get the good stinky stuff that they are only supposed to sell to contractors then that stuff can last quite a while.

consider how the thickness of the decking will affect the height from your top step and the height of your threshold. Really you want all your steps even. If it's out by 1/4 that might still be ok you can get away with some difference but you dont' want something like an inch difference.

I wouldn';t let them build it level even if it is partially covered. you want the water to run away from the house. you can consider gutters and things to take the water away or just let it fall under the house. You can use flashing and cant strips ( triangular strips) to help keep the water from running where you don't want it to go like towards the house along the ledger board. for vinyl they us a metal drip edge, for fibergalss you can use a fiberglass one. If the water can pool it makes dirty spots and can cause damage so I'd opt for a bit more slope if you dont' have gaps between planks.

if you did use fiberglass I'd buy the plywood and do the coating right away before it is walked or rained on. I really like mine because it is maintenance free and really does shed every bit of water and we get lots of that. but the carpenters probably wont' want to use fiberglass because they wont' be familiar with it.

if you use paint think about how slippery it is particularly where you enter the house. On mine I threw a little walnut shells in the last coat and that helped a lot but I didn't use the grit everywhere because it is easier to clean without it. In Texas ice might never be an issue but I imagine you do get blowing rain.

It might be tempting to use thicker lumber thinking it will be more sturdy and last longer but really as long as your lumber is strong enough to take the weight properly the choice might be thinner than you first thought. some gaps might not look as good as laying stuff tight but if the air can get in there and dry it out after it rains in there then it might last a lot longer. less water underneath might also mean your basement stays less humid and that could affect how much the bugs like it there.

you might have a choice which way you run the flooring and maybe how the ends are exposed would change that decision. it's better if the ends of the planks aren't getting wet. You may also find that long boards are more expensive than short ones and maybe you could eliminate the butt joints this way. sometimes the lumber used to make long boards started as bigger trees and then they cull the knotty twisty stuff to shorter boards as warp is more of a problem with longer lumber. if you have other projects scheduled you might be able to order more and cull it so for example you use the ones you donmt' like so much on a fence , or it might mean you pick those perfect looking ones for stuff like sills and casings and door jambs where you want more perfect lumber.

some lumber looses it's knot holes easier than others. Its one thing to have a knot that shows and another to have a hole. if you want perfect vertical grain lumber with no knots you'll pay more. If you can select out some of the ones you dont' like so much for a fence or something that is another way to get better lumber for your porch.




Phil
Last edited by phil on Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

1918ColonialRevival
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Re: Porch Decking wood species

Post by 1918ColonialRevival »

Olson185 wrote:In 2013 we put in 5/4 T&G doug. fir. on three covered porches (1 @ 1st floor & 2 @ 2nd floor). Each board was given one coat of primer, on all sides, and installed wet with a 2nd coat along tongues and grooves. After installation, a 2nd coat of primer was applied, allowed to dry, and then a single coat of porch paint applied.

Now I'm seeing some hairline gaps from board shrinkage. In heavy trafficked areas, as well as areas that do get rained on (edges of porch and the steps), the paint is starting to flake revealing the primer beneath. My main "experiment" was to see if cupping would occur (it isn't) and test the durability of the inexpensive ReStore 'seconds' paint (it's doing fine). Before Winter, I'll prep, prime, and paint a more permanent, durable finishing.



A gentleman who was a professional painter for over 50 years once told me that there's such a thing as too much primer. He told me to always stick to a single medium coat of primer, followed by two top coats of good quality paint. Paint is something that you get what you pay for. Lower quality paint won't be near as durable, especially in an exterior application. Spend a little more for better paint and you won't be having to re-do it near as often. The Re-Store type places are good for a lot of things, but I wouldn't get paint from them, especially exterior paint.

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