Restoring 100 yr old internal doors

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wilked
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Restoring 100 yr old internal doors

Post by wilked »

Hello. Boston-area, typical early 1900s Victorian. The third floor of the house had a walkup stairway (accessible from common hallway 2nd floor), at the top of which was a mostly finished bedroom and an unfinished attic. Bedroom did not appear to have been used for some time and was too cold in the winter (even with the radiator on) and too hot in the summer. Windows up here were often open and everything exposed to probably dust, temperature extremes, and general elements.

As an example, here is before and after on the bedroom floor.

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We just finished a renovation where we redid the whole floor (added a bath, finished bedroom, added a playroom, central air).

We want to reuse the doors, nice solid wood. The doors have some scuffs on them but are in good shape. They do not look as nice as the rest of the house though, and I am wondering what I can do to make them at least approach the beauty of my other doors in the house. See photos below, showing the door I am looking to restore vs another door existing in my house. I haven't done anything yet (not even cleaned them) as I was waiting to gather some advice.

Thanks!

Image

Image

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Neighmond
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Re: Restoring 100 yr old internal doors

Post by Neighmond »

A nice go at them with some Murphy's soap, followed by a waxing and buffing would make a world of difference!

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Al F. Furnituremaker
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Re: Restoring 100 yr old internal doors

Post by Al F. Furnituremaker »

From your pictures, the doors look like two different woods to me. The lower one looks like a better quality wood than the upper. I'm guessing the upper one is fir rails and styles and rotary cut pine plywood panels. The lower door seems to be a wood of tighter grain and possible plain sliced plywood or solid panel. Like I said hard to tell from the pictures.

I would do a complete strip, sand, stain(if desired), and finish. If you go this route, be careful of blotching on the soft wood. A sealer will be required.

phil
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Re: Restoring 100 yr old internal doors

Post by phil »

I agree about the grain pattern , I looked at the top photo and thought that's plywood so it cant' be original , they didnt' really have plywood back then. but also you can see the edge of it ? I could see someone replacing a panel, maybe it was glass and got broken. Why can we see the edge of it? ( at the right of the pic you can see the edge of the plywood) maybe the plywood could be veneered or if it is out maybe just buy a piece of plywood with a nice veneer already applied?
the one on the bottom looks like it was either stripped and refinished or maybe it is not an old door but a newer door made to the old style with an old knob? It looks nice though, I'd keep it , but something is funny here too. most older door are made of smaller pieces of wood that are joined together and panels are made to be able to move slightly so they don't crack from wood movement. with plywood you don't have the wood movement so you can have larger panels. it could be that it is old but they used a solid core not plywood with veneer over it. I kind of think that panel in the bottom one is not just one piece of wood, it's too wide.
If the bottom one is old someone has removed the patina and refinished it but that's ok, it looks very nice. If you sanded the upper door you'd remove the patina and then use your choice of clear finish. I think they are two different types of wood. the top one looks like fir or maybe old pine, it is old but the bottom one is a lighter and tighter grained wood and I think it might be a different species. I agree with Al.
the door in the top picture, if you look closer at the profile near the panel, is it removable on one side? that would enable you to refit a new panel that matches the door, or use glass?

I have 4 nice glass doors that I picked up free. I could see sticking a solid panel in them if I wanted say a bedroom door , or something. some of the panes are broken. they all look similar to the door in the upper pic. note that it does not have a rail near the knob like the other one. I think that's typical of a glass door.

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Re: Restoring 100 yr old internal doors

Post by Kashka-Kat »

IMHO, I think they very well could be the same wood and all, just difference in photo lighting and also #2 still has all its finish on and so the wild grain isnt quite as visible - you can still see it though if you look closely. Not plywood exactly... either a veneer or more rare is the 1/2 - 3/4 inch thick solid panel cut from HUGE honkin logs from old growth early 1900s forests (long gone). Probably the latter if I had to guess - had a house once with very similar doors. In any event they are beautiful and worthy of renovation - have really come to appreciate vintage fir & pine, and judging by the prices in the salvage stores - so have other people!

ETA - I wonder if #2 and your nicer doors downstairs may have already been refinished by PO? Maybe stained with a light color & some sort of matte clear finish?

phil
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Re: Restoring 100 yr old internal doors

Post by phil »

if you look at the right hand side of the first pic , at first glance it looks like you can see the edge of the plywood but i think what I was seeing is an optical illusion , you can see the molding profile there.

wilked
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Re: Restoring 100 yr old internal doors

Post by wilked »

I can take a few more photos later.

So far I am hearing:
1. Clean and wax it
2. Full sand, sealer, stain, finish

Obviously I like the first a lot more as it is less work. I do feel pretty confident that these are original doors, there are close to 10 of the "type 2" and they all look very identical, and 5-6 of the other (again, looking identical). I just can't see them as having been replaced (one of the "type 1" was a door into the unfinished attic space - why would you have replaced it??). I suppose the "type 2" door could have been replaced, but again many of these are closet doors and I just couldn't see the homeowner replacing them all. I guess refinishing them all is a possibility, would seem like a lot of work to do the whole house (all 10 or so) but definitely possible.

I will get a few more photos and post them, besides guessing wood types and true age I would love to hear a few more opinions on actions to take. Ultimately I would like the doors to look good. When we bought the house we specifically noted the beauty of the doors (type 2) as a 'selling point' and get lots of compliments on them, would love to get the other door to at least approach that beauty.

Also - thanks everyone!

phil
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Re: Restoring 100 yr old internal doors

Post by phil »

the second one looks fine as it is. with the first door I think you have some darkening of the wood due to age. You could wax or what I like to do is use this old recipe. one part linseed oil, one part turpentine, one part vinegar.

what you do is put it in a squirt bottle and shake it up. If you leave it sit the vinegar separates , don't worry about that, it's just in there for cleaning.

rub it in with a cloth and wipe all you can off with dry cloths. Any scratches will be able to absorb oil and it will darken them to about what the other parts are. Where there is finish still on the wood (99% of it) wont' be able to absorb the linseed oil because the present finish ( probably shellac) isnt' porus and wont' really absorb the oil so itll wipe off there and change very little except tiny scratches. but the scratches or places with missing finish do absorb. this hides them. Where it is scratched you dont' see the difference in surface so much as the color difference.

after that you could go with the wax if you want or you could use use the wax. the wax will fill the scratches so the surface is more even thus hiding them more.

because the outer "skin" of the wood is darkened from 100 years of sunlight it's darker. If you start sanding , you can but be prepared to sand it all right down to the lighter wood underneath to achieve an even color. youll need to remove any hardware. that's easy on the flat surfaces you can use a sander, but the moldings will need some hand work and with lots of doors it's lots of work.
Once sanded you can oil or use your preference of coating. If you want it dark like you started with you can spray a toner ( shellac or lacquer or oil) with some stain in it to adjust the color. You can spray or wipe but be aware that wiping on stain can leave streakiness so if I do that I make the adjustments with about three coats without very much color. If you are spraying or wiping on coats of shellac or lacquer you can add colors to make it look about like coffee ( in the liquid state) and the result will be light enough to adjust color but not so dark you get issues with the streaking. you can use amber shellac if you wish.

as Al mentions you can get some funny streaking on some woods if you don't use a sealer. maple is bad for this , fir less so but you might see some. this is because the more porous parts of the grain want to suck up the liquid and take more stain in certain areas than others. You can use spray on products or even just a light coat of shellac first or if you are working with oil wipe on a couple of clear coats and then you can introduce colored oil. the first coats are absorbed into the pore porus areas which decreases the problem. some commercial shops spray on dye and then they dont have the absorption issues as the pigment is more evenly distributed but lets assume you dont' want to spray it.

see what others suggest. There are many different ways you might approach it.
I'd start with the old recipe if it were myself but everyone has different favorite techniques. I dont' like the idea of applying other products overtop of wax so I dont 'use it much but some like it. to be fair you can probably remove the wax with a good rub of solvent or alcohol or something if you want to refinish after applying it. dont' use anything with silicone. it will cause fish eyes if you ever refinish. hopefully the previous owners didn't' use random furniture polishes and such because it would cause havoc if you refinish. I'm not sure about what is in the murphies oil?

Since it is probably shellac it is also possible to wipe on more shellac to renew the finish. you could perhaps do some experiments along the top edge of some doors as no one really looks there or if you can find other old shellacked items to practice with that might be worthwhile.

if you want to wipe new shellac over the old then you have to pay attention to the strength ( pound cut) and how saturated the cloth is. if it is too wet ( with alcohol) it will mess up and maybe run liquid into the old finish causing a defect.
you can fold your rag into a pad and add some liquid as you go.

If your rag gets too dry it will get sticky and want to cling into the existing finish and you dont' want that either. With a little practice you can find a balance and be successful. If you dwell too long on one spot things will go sideways so if you try this , try to keep moving, dont' dwell on one spot, and allow a little time to dry, you can do many many coats and that's french polishing. you can read more about french polishing if you want to try that. try not to bury any dirt into the existing or it will become part of the new finish.

be aware that you cant' just pile up old cloths with oil and alcohol and things, put them in a bucket of water or hang them up outside to dry or toss them on the lawn but dont' pile them together while damp or you can get a fire from spontaneous combustion. no spark needed.

If you wanted to sand only the outside parts and leave the center panel and the molding that would be faster , or if you didn't mind the molding being darker maybe you could mask it off and be careful not to touch it and just refinish the flat areas only. If you want to sand the center panel you could but you'd need to do it by hand near the molding to avoid damage. I'd avoid trying to sand the molding (or Ogee profile) since its going to be too much work.

If you took those doors to a commercial shop they have drum sanders that you could fire the door through and it will come out the other side fully sanded but it would only hit the raised portions on the edges. with the number of doors it might be worth doing that. They might not want to run previously shellacked through. a small shop might just put some older paper on it to do the one job and then discard the paper or maybe charge you for the paper. a large shop probably wouldn't look at this type of work so I'd look for a ma and pop shop that has a drum sander the width of your doors at least. that would save a lot of sanding by hand but you'd still need to do the edges at home.

if you strip them you could spray, wipe or brush on shellac yourself , you could also go to a commercial finishing shop and they would have a spray booth and they could be sprayed with lacquer, that wouldn't take them too long. it is a lot to spray at home but possible depending on your situation and distance from neighbors etc. perhaps a commercial shop could do all the doors in one day if you did the prep work. the spraying is fast but its easier with a real spray booth and you won't have the same issues with dust. I'd use a wipe on or brush on method unless you can at least make an improvised spray booth.

I'll shut up now ;-) see what the other say.

Im long whinded but to sum up three more options to consider
1 - the "recipie"
2- repair the finish with french polishing
3- have a commercial shop help and sand and respray all the doors but mask off the ogee and leave that as is to reduce labor.

Phil

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Re: Restoring 100 yr old internal doors

Post by Kashka-Kat »

I think I would start by first seeing if &how easily the stains come out ( Ive sometimes used scratchy pad& bleach solution for this purpose and paper towels to immediately soak it up very careful to not let it soak in - to avoid warping - be esp careful w/those thin panels). Also test to see if its shellac by seeing if it comes off w/denatured alcohol - if so it would be very easy just to remove it ... or just by wiping it down w/ alc + steel wool you can even it out to some extent.... it wont be perfect. That & stain removal might make it look more presentable til you get around to complete refinishing.

Are the #2s all downstairs, and #1s all upstairs? Its not unusual if they used different more expensive woods in the public areas.... if thats what's going on. IMHO the wood in the house wouldnt HAVE to all match, though I do agree that #2 looks very nice

wilked
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Re: Restoring 100 yr old internal doors

Post by wilked »

Yes, all #2s on 1st/2nd floor, and all #1s on 3rd floor (originally unfinished / partially finished floor)

I am going to do this:

1. Clean it with Murphy's
2. Try and remove shellac with denatured alcohol
3. Work wax into it, try and restore look

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