Roof, Vinyl Siding, and Windows

[aislinn]

Happy summer everyone! It’s been 8 months in our foursquare and I love it more and more each day!

So, my dream is to remove our vinyl siding. We also know we need to replace our roof in the next 2-4 years. IF we do the siding I’m wondering if it makes sense to do it before we install the roof?

Anyone here have experience removing vinyl siding? I have no idea how long it’s been on our house, but our neighbor who has been here since 1968 thinks it was put on in the eighties sometime. If you’re in Mass do you have a contractor/carpenter you recommend? I have no idea how to budget for this sort of thing. Attaching photos of what we saw underneath when we took a piece off.

If the vinyl siding is removed we’ll also need to figure out a storm window plan. I’d love to not hide our original windows. Where do I even start with that? And with windows in general, how do you know when they need to be restored?

We’re trying to come up with a 20 year budgetary plan for some of these big projects, just to get a sense of how much we need to put away each month if possible. Your sage advice is welcome!

Aislinn

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[Gothichome]

Aslinn, I would suggest the roof be taken care of first. I see your home has been externally insulated. Keep that in place as long as possible until all other fixes have been made. This does two things for you, protects the shakes until your ready, and secondly keeps the heating costs down.

[1918ColonialRevival]

That vertical separation makes me think moisture has been getting under the vinyl. If that's been happening for the last 30 years, there's a good chance that all the siding underneath looks about the same as the section you've pulled up. I'm not trying to be a pessimist, but the siding may end up being a big project.

It's pretty easy to tell when wood windows need restoration. You'll see the glazing cracking and starting to work its way loose from the frames, sometimes in large sections. You may also see some separation or loosening of the joints of the frame.

Some people are fans of storm windows, but I personally don't like them because as you said, they take away from the original windows' appearance. If the windows are in good condition, I see storms as a big expense for little return if you don't already have them. If you think back to Physics, one of the laws is that heat rises. You will have more heat escaping from your attic and roof than out any windows. People forget that heating a house was proportionally no cheaper in the early 20th Century than it is today. The old windows, when properly restored, do a more than adequate job. Heavy drapes in the winter give an extra layer of insulation from any drafts, which again should be minimal once the windows are restored.

I've seen people spend tens of thousands of dollars "weatherizing" their houses to save $15-$20 a month on their heating bill. I once had a co-worker get mad when I calculated his so-called savings doing one of those whole house energy efficient renovations on a 1980s split level. In order for him to break even on the supposed savings he was getting from all of his renovations, he would have to live in the house for 78 years.

[phil]

if you are planning to hire all this work out I'd consider leaving the siding for now. the cost of hiring contractors and replacing the original siding with shingles may easily push what cost you have into the place to a point where the value of the home is increased but not by as much since it looks presentable even though they did not respect the heritage look.
time to do your roof is if its leaking and in the summer months. contractors do work in all seasons but its best if you arent' up against the weather. if it's duride than it gets hot in the heat and the roof can be damaged easily by walking on it. when its cold the shingles are more brittle. I rad there are basically two types, asphalt are more tar based and softer in colder weather. the ones Im using are fiberglass but there is still a lot of petroleum products in them.
if you lok at a new roof itll be crisp and clean looking, then you get some moss build up, you can sparay moss killer on it to kil the moss. eventually the sun attacks the duride and it looses granules. youll find your gutters filling with the sand from it. further on the roofing tends to lift at the edges and moss may grow below sort fo lifting the edges. eventually it gets too crumbly and needs replacement. they last 20 years or so. of course there are other options like metal roofs and slate, or cedar shingles would probably be most authentic but you'll see the costs are higher too and fire insurance may be higher with a flammable roof. cedar shakes do last a long time.
there are lots of different options, the most common here is architectural shingles.

one approach to consider is to strap the roof and add some insulation but leave a gap. it means new plywood then you can leave the roof you have on and put another over it. the gap can be used then to draw air in from the ridge and out through a vented ridge cap.
im re roofing and I decided that was more than I wanted to do but you could compare costs and obviously you'd discuss feasibility with some contractors. you might have some choices about flashing around the perimeter but really the roof is a separate project. the cheapest option is to re-roof right over your old roof and not remove the shingles. mine were too far gone and crumbly but if you had older 3 tab shingles and the roof is reasonably flat it has been done and you can go up to 3 layers. you could already have more than one and not know it.

Ive been seeing some US TV commercials where they come and spray a glue like substance over the roof to help the shingles hold on a bit longer. that could make sense on a 10 year old roof, maybe it would extend it's useful life?

most of our old houses were not insulated. Ive taken the approach of restoring plaster but inn most rooms found it best to open walls from the inside and insulate but it means a lot of living within a reno. sometimes they just put insulation on the outside, cheaper and easier to do.
some own really historic homes where the plaster is something they consider a feature they want to preserve so it can be a trade off depending what the inside walls are looking like and how historically significant the place is. my house is in a noisy area so I want the sound proofing as much as insulation and the last rooms I did I used expensive soundproof drywall to tone down the traffic noise. its about 75 bucks a sheet or so. sometimes the best move is to not open stuff up that you don't need to but you can of course consider all the options. Id get a better idea of cost and try to make a determination if that cost is going to increase your house value.
some falling love with old houses and want it all to be as original as they can make it. Just like with restoring old cars the passion can override sensible financial choices and that's ok if it's what you want.

[aislinn]

Thank you all! My gut feeling was also that there is moisture under the siding and that leaving the siding makes the most financial sense, at least for now. Just makes me nervous that there is moisture damage lurking and it's all hidden right now.

The house actually got blown in insulation on the outer walls five years ago, according to the previous home owner. Also the owners in the 80s insulated the whole third floor/attic. We also have storms and did not have any drafty areas/rooms that I could tell. To heat our home in the coldest month was $350 with steam radiators (with a brand new gas heat boiler). So considering the size of our home and the fact we have 10 foot ceilings, I was nervous it'd be a lot worse. Would be an interesting experiment to see how much taking off the siding and storms would change that. Too bad I can't just flip a switch and try both!

1918colonialrevival: I appreciate your comments re: storm windows and using drapes. I think based on what you've written that our windows are in pretty good shape considering their age.

[phil]

it might be possible to explore with a moisture probe without removing the siding to see if you have any water that's trapped, if you suspect that. i bet you could drill a tiny hole to get the probe in there, you could look at different moisture probes , maybe buy one.

I tried to lok in your album at the roof. It might have some wear , hard to tell. the guyyers and all look very nice the slope on some parts might be quite a low slope.

there are limits with shingles, when you get down to a very low slope they dont work as well and if you look into the manufacturers data they may say they aren't suitable for under a certain amount of slope.

you can get different membranes to put underneath. they have torch on roofing or various membranes. some are thick and have a sticky backing. the one im using is thin and had a sort of rubbery surface and a backing like thin plastic, its very hard to tear.
a good membrane might help shed any water that does get backed up and go under the shingles. with a higher slope this is less of an issue.
the nice thing is yours looks easy to walk on so that will lower the price.

my brother has a pretty gentle slope on his roof, He went a little under the limit but it works. You might get by with the standard shingles but the warranty might be void under a certain slope. You could check any particular product to see if its applicable for the slope you have.

If worst came to worst and you had a leak you can always slap a membrane or even a tarp over whats there to get you through to better weather and bide time. as long as it isn't covered in snow, something like that could probably be done even in the rainy seasons. just check more frequently if you get so you dont trust it, especially when the snow is melting and it is still icy out.

Its possible in some areas to get an ice dam. the snow on the roof melts because of the heat from the building, It gets to the areas that overhang and there isn't any heat there from the building, then it can pile up with ice forcing the water back upwards then it can overrun the back of the shingles, basically. so the code here requires roofing felt be laid back from the eves 3 feet or so. the membrane isnt' code here but different areas have different codes. High wind areas have other special issues. local roofers should know whats suitable in your area. Ice dams are less problematic here because we tend to get some snow but it melts quickly usually. also these issues are less of an issue on a higher pitch because that water just really wants to leave a lot more easily. what can happen is if it's windy the wind can drive the water uphill sometimes or catch the edges of shingles and lift them. It looks like with a pointy shaped roof you dont really have a gable end and if the gutter is on all sides the bottom of the shingles are probably sort of protected by the gutters.

im installing a flashing just above my gutters. it wasnt' there but it helps to get the water off the roof into the gutter without backing up under the shingles right at the edge. it goes under the felt under the roofing so it is hard to see unless you are up close and can look down int the gutters. you probably cant' see if you have one without going up to look closely as the gutters will hide it from the ground view. im using a drip flashing on the gable ends which also wasn't there on mine. I dotn think you really have a gable end so I guess you'd just have the one above the gutter if any at all. It might be an option to consider when you do re roof but you might have some time with yours. no point doing it too soon.