Strip and stain, or strip and repaint?

[Kmarissa]

Hi all,

This is a question for those of you that have grappled with painted trim/doors/windows that were originally shellacked/stained (I'm not really up on my historical wood finishes). How many have systematically removed the paint and restored the original finish? How many of you have stuck with the painted finish? For those who retained a painted finish, are you grappling with multiple heavy layers of paint affecting things like your doors closing properly? Has anyone combined painted and stained/shellacked finishes within the same rooms (example: stained door and white door trim)?

We have a number of paint issues throughout the house, not the least of which is that the previous owner repainted all the trim (to get the house "ready for market" of course), putting latex paint right over oil paint with, it seems, no prep work of any kind. So, in many places, that's peeling off the previous paint layer like dead skin on a healing sunburn. We also have sticking doors and, in a few places, cracking/flaking paint. I feel like we're going to have to do some paint removal in general, and am weighing the pros and cons of trying to restore some of the original shellacked look versus just stripping enough old paint to solve the current problems, and then repainting.

I know it's can be a very hot topic whether to spend countless hours stripping endless paint, or just embracing the paint that's already there. I keep going back and forth on the pros and cons of each, and it would be nice to hear some other people's thoughts based on their own experiences.

[Mick_VT]

If the paint is thick and questionable like you describe, it is better to strip before repainting or going natural. The latter can be hard to do, though not impossible, as you have to remove almost every trace of the old paint.

[Kmarissa]

Mick, I think that's part of what I'm grappling with--if I'm going to have to remove most of the paint anyway then would it make sense to go whole-hog and finish the job? That said, it sounds like there might be a big difference in work between stripping most of the paint in order to repaint, versus taking it down to bare wood and staining.

Maybe the thing to do is take one door down, see how hard it is to strip all the paint, then decide whether I want to do that process over and over and over again.

[Mick_VT]

Maybe the thing to do is take one door down, see how hard it is to strip all the paint, then decide whether I want to do that process over and over and over again.

I think that would be my inclination. If there is a healthy coat of shellac at the bottom that will likely make the stripping much easier and cleaner. The issue comes with where paint has got into the wood. Dings, scrapes and dents in the original finish that were then painted over later can mean the paint gets through into the wood. You can disguise that which you cannot remove, but it can be a lot more work. A lighter finish whose color is in the finish itself (as opposed to a stain), and lighter woods should be much more forgiving

[Vala]

I've totally stripped the paint and refinished with stain and shellac from a couple of rooms so far. That's the route I'd recommend, but it is very labor intensive. And yes the shellac layer makes stripping with heat much easier, though I always get little bits left behind that require chemical stripper. Though I've heard some people say they managed to save the original finish and just re shellac, I don't see how that is possible because I can never get every last bit of paint off with heat alone.

[phil]

Im doing my place bit by bit. what I do is alternate with other projects. when i do a room I remove all the trim, fix the walls and ceiling and strip and refinish all the wood before it gets put back.

you are right , removing 95% of the paint is less than half the work. If there is shellac underneath it is much easier. there are tricks to make things go faster. If you can remove most of the paint you can sand it and sanding and re-cutting the roundovers can speed things up considerably. in some cases it is faster to replicate parts than strip them , an example is the 1/4 x 1.25 strips around windows. No point stripping that stuff if you can replace it with other old growth lumber it is faster to replicate it. same with 1/4 round. i can buy new 1/4 round and my time is worth something too.

be careful with stain. stain is more permanent than paint. It is really really hard to get stain off and although the wood may be darkened over time, well mine is but none is stained and I don't' use stain. sometimes if I sand wood I do a coat or two of clear danish oil followed by a couple of coats of colored oil. i might add a tiny bit of stain this way but i go very weak and careful with the pigments. I want the wood to look natural. all mine is fir and none was stained, your house may be different. the reason I never put a tinted finish on bare wood is because it will enhance marks and cracks. it's best to get a couple coats of a clear finish down and then doctor the overall color to the darkness to match the surroundings. going darker is easy, going lighter is almost impossible.

If I sand old casings I break through the darkened layer. I try to do that evenly. I find it quite easy to replicate the natural darkness with careful use of pigments. You could choose to use danish oil like i do or you can add colorants to your shellac or whatever topcoat you use. you can substitute blopentine for the danish oil . I think the danish oil has a bit more dryers and maybe a bit of varnish in it so it fills and dries a bit faster but otherwise it is quite like blopentine. i often add more turps. Usually I end up doing about 3 coats or so and I might nail it up and then do a careful coat or two every year or so if I want it darker or if it starts to look too dry, this is pretty easy but I find I have to mask the walls so I don't' get coatings on the painted walls. Its so much easier when it is still off.

I find it really hard to get every bit out if I don't' sand the wood as part of my process. If you have white bits yes you can use a bit of paint and an artists brush, or colored putty or felt pens with suitable colors. you can even throw a bit of brown paint in with your stripper in the final stages to prevent pushing the paint color into cracks. some I pick out other stuff I cover. plastic brushes and stripper can work. If its paint stuck in an indent sometimes a cover up is faster but I get almost all the paint off that I can. you dont; want too much filler. i keep about 3 colors of filler that I have tested and premixed for filling details and I look at the surroundings of where I put the filler or even blend them loosely to avoid areas of filler where there is just one tone , that shows.

when you strip use scraping and heat gun but be gentle and careful with the wood, don't go digging into the wood or you'll have other issues with cleaning up your tooling marks. use an old putty knife not a sharp scraper when heat gunning and you'll mark the wood up less. If you were doing the exterior that might be different.

I never try to strip anything without removing it unless it's hard to remove, window sills need to be stripped in place and window frames , but windows and doors and casings , baseboards and trim I always remove and work on at table height it is faster and easier. when they are put back I put them back nearly finished the most I do after that is a bit of putty for nail holes or maybe more coats of oil but trying to strip a casing and not hurt the paint on the wall is just frustrating. careful prying , repairing any cracks you do get right away. I really don't loose any parts due to rough treatment. use thin flat pry bars not screwdrivers or a wrecking bar. go gentle and slow with removal and work back and forth along the board. usually the nails come with the piece, and can then be pulled after removing the piece.

always pull the nails right through if they are finishing or casing nails, never hammer them back out, it will chip if you do and the result will be more putty near the nail hole.
I fill all nail holes before I put casings back and drill little holes for my new nails to prevent splitting. often I use the same holes again. usually I just buy the thin long nails in strips for finishing nail guns but I don't always use the nail gun , I can get more precise if I drive them by hand. the heads are sort of oblong and flat and I try to put them so the longer dimension is with the grain. I just take pliers and break them off the strip. you can use a finishing nailer if you want but I find I like driving them by hand. sometimes I use pliers to prevent the long thin nails from bending over. i made up a tool that is just a piece of steel dowel with a hole in it and sometimes that helps get them started. I pre-drill tiny holes. this way I don't' split my finished wood parts. set the nails , use wax crayon to hide them.

you can use colorants and colored putty to hide specks there is technique to this but it can be done faster than you first think.

stripping a whole house is a LOT of work. the only way I stay sane is to just do it for a while then put it aside and mix in other projects.
I'd suggest starting with casings and trim, as you develop skills then work on things like doors and windows. They present different issues unless you want to disassemble them you have corners to work into. flat pieces are much easier. I am sometimes able to get casings and baseboards from other old houses and strip those ahead of time.

all my previous owners white paint is work to be done, what I have finished looks much nicer in my opinion as time wears on I am slowly winning but it's not a task I could hire out or do in one go. You need to be practical with your time. I don't mind if I strip casings and wait to do the doors. it's part of the process. I'm doing my living room right now. I pulled all the trim and I will fix the walls, sand the floors and then i can use the room. I can return casings and baseboards as I go after that but after paint and floors refinished the room will be useable, right now it is reno zone. to make sure I wasn't overwhelmed I stripped each piece as I pulled it but I have refinishing to do before it goes back on. this part is actually quite fulfilling. I will probably try to strip the sills and window frames or at least get the bulk off while it's a reno zone and then remove windows and do more finishing as time allows. the windows themselves come out and don't need to be stripped on location.

one might explore places that do stripping or have commercial dunk tanks or do stripping with dry ice blasting or walnut shell blasting. blasting can dig into the grain but there may be alternatives like blasting most of the paint and then sanding. every situation is a bit different. Ive seen casings with milk paint that were really hard to strip and wouldn't react to heat gun or strippers. most of my living room was shellacked and it was easy to get that off. sometimes I have even tossed casings that I didn't like stripping or ones I didn't like the grain pattern on I guess I'm lucky my trim isn't really uncommon and it is simple. If it's a Victorian home the work could be insurmountable depending on the detail.

try not to bite off more than you can chew. Many times good intentions lead to missing parts so it's best to plan your time and taking a door outside on a day off during the summer, spending one day on it and putting it back may be much more pleasurable than boarding it up in winter and choking on fumes in your basement.

if thick paint prevents doors from closing don't hesitate to pull out the scraper and heat gun and remove the layers in the way. if it still hits pull out the plane, of course you might be also able to adjust at the hinges. you want your doors to work properly or you may just put up with frustration for a long time before you have time to fix it.

Phil

[Kmarissa]

These are all good thoughts. What's bringing the issue to a head is that I've been talking with a window restorer regarding a window that we're having professionally restored (all the rest need restoration, too, but at this point I'm not sure what we can afford to have professionally done versus what we'll need to attempt ourselves). But, the question came up of whether the sash interiors would be repainted or finished with a stain or shellac. I feel like that decision will lock me into a course of action either way, so I'm trying to parse it out.

I have seen home interiors where a portion of the trim is stained (or some other natural-type finish) and the rest is painted--for example, where doors and window sashes have a natural-type finish and the casings are painted. That can be attractive, so maybe that's a way to find a look that isn't all or nothing.

Does anyone else just get completely hung up in not being able to make a decision? Or do you find that you make your restoration decisions more quickly the longer you work on the same house?

[Mick_VT]

Tell the restorer stain, then you can defer the decision

[Kmarissa]

The specific window we're having restored first is up in our attic, so I'm actually fine with having that one painted because it may never have been stained to begin with. But once we focus on the main two floors that's where the question comes up. Preparing each window for a stain finish would cost several hundred more than if it will be repainted due to the extra labor (paint removal as well as how they do any repairs that are necessary)--if we're having more of them professionally done.

So, I do still have some time to decide.

[phil]

if you paint , put shellac first. it will function as a seal coat. If you ever want to strip you'll be glad you did. shellac has a low melting temperature so I t lets go easier but wont' affect the longevity of your finish if you paint. if you want stain I'd experiment irst with darker colors of shellac because if you don't want it stained you can't get the stain out of bare wood unless you sand off a lot of material.

paying someone else to strip all your trim could get extremely expensive. It's kind of a labor of love thing unless you have lots of cash to throw into the project. You are right to consider the whole proojest as it's easy to spend a whole lot of time in one corner and then realize it'll take a lot of time or money to make other areas match. Whatever you do keeping your mind on the end result is smart and yea a lot of us do spend time pondering such things