So...it has come to this.

[Lily left the valley]

Opening snippet from the article:
"A retired couple has sued Astoria to force the approval of window replacements in a historic house over the objections of the Lower Columbia Preservation Society.

Thomas and Priscilla Levy bought the house at 16th Street and Grand Avenue in August and retired from Portland.

The couple submitted an application in September to replace 19 white pine window frames in the house with Fibrex, a composite of reclaimed wood fiber and thermoplastic polymer made by Andersen Windows & Doors. Thomas Levy argued that the old windows were beyond repair, with black mold and deterioration."

This is the part that's weird:
"The Historic Landmarks Commission ultimately approved the newer window materials in December, finding the old windows beyond repair and Fibrex a suitable replacement. The approval required the Levys to match the old style of windows precisely."

Former town official that's now the chairman of the board for the Lower Columbia Preservation Society stating the obvious:
“People move to Astoria from other areas, and they buy historic homes, and they do so because they want to live in and own a historic home,” said Thompson, who used to serve on the City Council. “And Astoria doesn’t look the way it does by accident. That’s why we’ve had this ordinance on the books for more than a quarter of a century.”

From what I managed to find online, Astoria indeed has two different historic groups, the Historic Landmarks Commission, which is not the same as the Lower Columbia Preservation Society. So this is two historic groups that for whatever reason decided to not be on the same page.

From both of their home pages:
"The seven-member Historic Landmarks Commission's responsibility is to promote the historic, educational, cultural, economic, and general welfare of the public through the preservation, restoration, and protection of historic landmarks, buildings, and sites with the City. The Commission reviews requests for exterior alterations to historic structures, new construction adjacent to historic properties, and other permits in historic areas. Members serve four-year terms and are appointed by the Mayor.

Historic Landmarks Commission decisions can be appealed to the City Council."

"Lower Columbia Preservation Society preserves our history, culture, livability and sense of place by protecting historic structures and sites, promoting active stewardship of historic properties and supporting preservation education."

Article: https://www.dailyastorian.com/news/loca ... 2cedc.html

The home in question:

[1918ColonialRevival]

It's amazing (and sad) how many people have bought into the replacement window myth. It's been an advertising gimmick for half a century and it did its job. Those windows in that house look perfectly serviceable to me and I'd wager that every one of them is restorable.

It sounds to me like this is a case of yuppies coming into an area and getting mad when they don't get their way. It happens in our neighborhood every couple of years. Someone comes in from the outside and wants to slap vinyl windows into their house. The neighborhood association tells them they can't. The city and state historic architecture boards tell them they can't. They then throw a tantrum. It usually ends up with them moving out. Like I said above, it's a shame people have become so brainwashed.

The same with older appliances. I've seen so much bad information out there it's not even funny. Everyone calls them "energy hogs" (which they are not), saying instead people need to invest their money in so-called efficient appliances from Communist China that will have a 5-10 year lifespan if people are lucky. Probably the saddest part of it all is those who are crowing about energy efficiency at their loudest generate ten times more waste than those of us who restore what we have. People forget all of that stuff has to go somewhere.

[Gothichome]

I bet if there is a tax reduction for keeping a historic property restored they are taking full advantage of it.
Playing the devils advocate, I suspect the historic commission see exact replacements as not being discernible from the originals at the street so there for are allowed, the preservation folks see otherwise.
I am leaning to restoration and hope for sake of the home and surrounding area, they must restore. The article mentions replacing the windows will not set a precedent, but can’t see how it could not. The argument being ‘well they could do it, why can’t I?’
It’s not a large leap from 19 windows to exact (or close enough) replacement vinyl.

[1918ColonialRevival]

...The argument being ‘well they could do it, why can’t I?’

And that is where it gets dangerous.

During the real estate crash of 2008-2012, we had a flipper who was buying houses in this neighborhood, doing cheap renovations, and re-selling. They had complete disregard for the historic preservation of the houses and did not get approval for any of the remuddling they did, choosing instead to pay "fines" (bribes?) to the officials. This had a couple of other people go rogue and start doing other things that were unsympathetic to the historical attributes of their properties. One in particular built a monstrosity of a greenhouse without any permits, then got into a three year battle with the city over it. Luckily, it ultimately ended up being demolished after part of it collapsed during a hurricane.

[PaulJohnson]

I fought the fight at my house.
Two contractors said replacement windows would be more efficient my wife and I discussed the topic and I was adamant that I wanted to keep the existing sashes. They are not original to the home - probably early 1900’s with no window weights. The house was built in 1750. We agreed to leave them as is and repair/restore what is there.

Another discussion was insulation. There is none in the original portion of the house. My contractor advised against it. His argument - the timber’s lasted this long. “I would not recommend changing the air flow and climatic change.” We agreed with him. I am sure this could be a topic for debate.

My response when I am asked, “If it was good enough for Bildad Fuller, it is good enough for me.”

[phil]

The "home in question" seems to have a modern shingle roof. I wonder what it had originally?

i can drive down my streets and spot the ones that have some originality left because those ones still have a chimney. They are disappearing one by one. wev'e also had a surprising number of fires to old buildings too. especially run down old business units. I suspect some are insurance related. They have a fire then next thing they have a new building on the property with no arguments about restoration.

[nhguy]

I sat on the zoning board for 14 years in our former town and was the historical society president too. The historic district commission there allowed every house that came in front of them to replace their windows. I spoke to one owner privately on the idea he could use interior storm windows and save $50-75K in replacement costs. He told me to F off, it was the last time I tried to intervene with people. They are sold on the idea and who was I to say different. My wife said I hope you learned your lesson....I did. I am stilled saddened by it though.

[phil]

I guess it's controversial because one may argue the old analogy of "a man's home is his castle" , so under that theory one may say you bought it , paid for it now it's yours to do with as you like and then one may also say historical regulations can increase cost. You should be permitted to put a patch or a tarp on your roof if that is what you need to do to get by.
I'd like to see more restrictions which could save more old homes near me and preserve the historic look. However I don't see the city really specifying what can be built so long as it meets building standards.

here I am not seeing a trend towards people paying more for homes which are more original. I often hope that in time the work we do will result in some form of appreciation. It should affect value but the mindset of buyers seems to be more in favor of space, suites and updates ( like removing the chimney, adding a bathroom)

the result of it , for now seems to be that if you like restoration its something to be proud of but dont expect to retire on the sweat equity. of course any work and maintenance improves its value and worth but things like building a suite, lifting it. adding on , those have more payoff because if you can create a rental unit it can pay a big part of the mortgage, making it a more attractive property. I dont think things like sanding all my fir floors and stripping all the paint from the casings and other restoration work really increase the value much. I do that more for the sense of accomplishment than anything. It really doesn't pay.


So many are struggling to buy into a market where you can't touch anything for under a million that houses here that are set up for just one family are becoming far outnumbered from multi family dwellings.

we do have a rule that in order to get a demo permit, if it is over 50 years old it has to come before council. I think it just gets passed unless neighbors show up and argue. otherwise the city will say something like well if you pay for a nearby streetlight to be added then we will pass it. the city wants the owner to build a suite then they get more tax money.

younger people are finding it really hard to get into the housing market, so mostly the new builds are condos and apartments. there is a lot of discussions around the "housing crisis" and "affordable housing" so cities are trying to react. things are splitting between the haves ( have a house) and the have nots ( perpetually wanting a house but cant' get the funding)

Hong kong is closing, being taken over by the communist party in china. a lot of the people in HongKong were business people, not farmers . they bought up a huge amount of real estate here, drove the prices up boosted building trades. It started in 1986 at expo "invite the world" was the slogan. They stayed.

many bought homes got their roots in so they had a place to flee to , then left the houses empty returned to Hong Kong to make more money. Also some with lots of money were buying up houses as a way of laundering money. some maybe drug money. The government reacted with a tax on foreign owners and a tax for houses that are vacant. I just had to fill in a form to say I am living in my house and am entitled to not pay this empty house tax.

they keep saying it is a "housing bubble" and it will pop and then what happens is they steadily increase anyway.
Vancouver and area is different because it is bound by mountains to the north border to the south ocean to the west and urban sprawl growing west.
BC has lots of land, no one worries about running out but people are driving 2 hours in and out of the city to get into the housing market and even those houses are over million now on average.


we have casinos, at one time gambling was illegal but it hasn't been for some time. people were walking into casinos with suitcases full of cash and they were taking it.. Neither the casinos nor the government wanted to stop it because of the money it brought in. now it's coming to light and causing some controversy.

there are a certain number of people who have a LOT of money. there seems to be some danger that the rich will buy up the houses as they are pretty solid investments. of course the average working Joe does not want to see that happen. beyond that it gets political..

one factor is the age of the baby boomers. They had kids but the cost of providing health care to the elderly will change because there are so many elderly in that age group. Part of the reason for immigration is to offset the cost and drive the economy. we see a lot of boomers who are selling out, buying in the interior, banking the difference as a retirement plan. moving to a little town where it ist' so crazy. I'm caught wondering If I should too or if I'd rather retire in the city and keep paying.. It is nice being so close to shopping. I can walk a mile and get any necessities. I wouldn't miss the traffic noise. living in some slower town would in many ways be more fun, people are more friendly, but not much entertainment or night life. I'm not big on going out but I like having access to a lot of what the city has to offer.

[1918ColonialRevival]

I sat on the zoning board for 14 years in our former town and was the historical society president too. The historic district commission there allowed every house that came in front of them to replace their windows. I spoke to one owner privately on the idea he could use interior storm windows and save $50-75K in replacement costs. He told me to F off, it was the last time I tried to intervene with people. They are sold on the idea and who was I to say different. My wife said I hope you learned your lesson....I did. I am stilled saddened by it though.

It's a shame that so many people have become brainwashed to advertising propaganda. The window companies achieved what they set out to do - have people believe that vinyl windows with a 10 year lifespan are the answer to all their problems and will make them save a killing on a monthly bill. And, the number of people who think a house should be a hermetically sealed can is amazing. It's no wonder there are so many more allergies today versus in generations past.

[Gothichome]

I fought the fight at my house.
Two contractors said replacement windows would be more efficient my wife and I discussed the topic and I was adamant that I wanted to keep the existing sashes. They are not original to the home - probably early 1900’s with no window weights. The house was built in 1750. We agreed to leave them as is and repair/restore what is there.

Another discussion was insulation. There is none in the original portion of the house. My contractor advised against it. His argument - the timber’s lasted this long. “I would not recommend changing the air flow and climatic change.” We agreed with him. I am sure this could be a topic for debate.

My response when I am asked, “If it was good enough for Bildad Fuller, it is good enough for me.”