mjt wrote:Different periods and architectural styles did things differently, regardless of whether the home was modest or not. For example, compare the "great hall" of our house with the great hall of one down the street. Both are by the same nationally renowned architect 2 or 3 years apart. One is a Richardsonian Romanesque with varnished trim originally and the other is a Georgian Colonial Revival with painted trim originally.
Classic example of it depending on what the customer wanted. There was no set formula for woodwork or wood finishes, especially in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.
I can almost picture two people meeting with the same architect circa 1900. One inspired by Monticello, Mount Vernon, or other early American landmarks and wanted the architect to incorporate Georgian and Neoclassical elements into their house. While the other favored Mediterranean villas and French country estates and wanted their house to contain elements similar to those. The first house would have had painted pine woodwork in keeping with the styling of their house, while the second would have had finished woodwork, likely in oak or walnut.
Most of the houses in my neighborhood (roughly 1910 to 1925) are some form of historical revival. We have Georgians, Tudors, Spanish, Norman - just about every style popular in the early 20th Century is represented here. All of the Colonial-inspired designs have pine trim that was always painted. The others have trim that was originally finished, though a handful have seen some unsympathetic painting in their lives.
Colonial, interesting you should mention Norman influences in revival homes of the early twentieth century. I could not in my mind visualize the design elements of this form. With a little research with professor Google I can see lingering Norman influences on the exterior of Gothichome (19th century revival). Our front door for example, the recessed round topped arch with receding trim details is very reminiscent of the typical Norman arch. Closer than the Roman arch I had previously thought. On further research I see the mixing of our (French influence) lancet door windows within the confines of our Norman arch is evident in the earliest hints of the birth of Gothic architecture in the tenth century. Amazing to me how far back these influences in our revival styles go. I should add that I am referring to the English version of domestic Gothic homes. As we know English architecture has been influenced over the century’s by what ever people had conquered the Islands.
Munch517 wrote:I keep thinking there has to be a better, more efficient way to strip paint than what I've been doing, I'm always interested to hear people's methods. I can't imagine hiring any reasonably competent person would be even remotely affordable, if you do find them send them my way next.
There are tools that can remove paint with a laser now and I've seen ones that work on wood. Trouble is that they cost in the tens of thousands of dollars, that's one of those technologies I expect might become affordable within the next decade or so.
just have a crack at it. pry off a board carefully, strip it put it back then worry about the next thing. . dont be afraid. the techniques vary and so do the shapes, so if you can post a pic we can offer suggestions.
If you think the wood is irreplaceable then it's worth sharing a picture. Ive never found a board in my 1924 home that can't be replaced or replicated. If you want to save cracked plaster that's another skill you'll pick up as you go. The thing to avoid is setting expectations that are out of reach. try heat gun and a carbide scraper and go for it. once you have most of it off break out the belt sander, you'll have your board down to bare wood in no time, then you can sand it a bit more nicely by hand, apply a nice finish and put it back. the experience you'll get from that will decrease your fears and you'll either love it or hate it. Just start with a little board in the back of a closet. With experience you will know more than we can put in words. While you are at it you will be thinking is there an easy way? , and you will read up a bit and find and think up all sorts of ideas and techniques. then if you have more questions just ask, there is a wealth of experience and varied opinions here and we are all happy to help.
The heat gun and scraper technique is what I've been using so far, that has generally left a shellac/varnish layer that I have to then take off with wood stripper and more scraping followed by cleaning everything up and then sanding. It's just incredibly tedious work, I think it takes me around 2 hours per foot of 12" baseboard to get it stripped and sanded. I've read of processes that commercial strippers use where they apply a chemical stripper then wash it off with paint and all, that sounds convenient but requires using some nasty chemicals and having the means to spray them off then dispose of the mess.
I do have to rebuild some window trim that the previous owner drilled through for insulation, I'm going to have to repair and/or rebuild some sashes as well. I'm lucky in that I have quite large specialty lumber yard in one of the outlying towns around me, I'm going to get an order around for them to source some tight grain lumber to match mine. I have had some trouble finding router/shaper bits to exactly match the existing contours, I'm going to get back on that search soon.
The trim on the first floor of my house has never been painted, and it's old growth pine that is stained to look like cherry. However, all the crown moulding in these rooms is painted white! I know that this is the way things were done, but much like Bonnie, I don't appreciate it.
It's a very simple moulding that is still in use today, however, nowadays everything is 1/8" to 1/4" smaller and it just looks cheap. My painters replaced a small bit of it above the garage outside and it bothers me every time I go out there -- they blended it in well, but it's just that tiny bit off. I'm going to take a sample to a mill and have replacements custom made so I can stain them to match. I think this will play up the Tudor or Craftsman influence in the house.
You can try a belt sander on the shellac varnish layer. You just dont want to breathe all the paint dust from doing that to get all the paint off. Or if it's too delicate to sand try just using lacquer thinners, It'll wash off of it's shellac.
if it's too thin you can trim some strips to build up the backside. Pick a wood that matches and it won't show so long as it's flat and a good fit. cut them just a tad big then plane or use a cabinet scraper to even up the edges.
sometimes I just fire the stuff through my thickness planer, take 1/16 or 1/8" off then build up the backside. that flattens the board if it's cupped and you can do the same with building up the back edges so no one can see it's not as thick. you might not have a thickness planer but you can probably find someone who does. Also a decent sized woodwork shop usually has a wide belt sander. that machine will take a good lick off and leave it flat and you could opt to get someone to do that to all of them at once.
I normally avoid running painted boards through my thickness planer or sander but especially if it's just varnish , the blades will look after that. the only thing is if it's a lot of paint it gums up and can dull the blades or if you miss nails you'll get nicks in the blades. there are special chemicals that work well to get the pitch off blades.
some machines use sandpaper, some use carbide segmented blades , some use 3 or 4 long blades. some blades can be sharpened , some are made to use once and replace. If I can use my 6 inch jointer instead of the thickness planer I do because I can have them sharpened, or new 6 inch blades are cheap. my thickness planer had replaceable blades, they can be touched up but they are meant to be replaced and that can get expensive. If you use a wide belt sander they work really well but an owner of one might not like you running old wood through if he just replaced the sandpaper. it's a loop about 4' but also , maybe 3-4 feet wide.
if the boards are short enough to handle , like under 10 feet or so I have a 6 inch sander. those belts are 6" x 48 inches and this is a common size so they are pretty cheap. often I'll just put the whole board across that while the belt is running facing upwards. I can hook up my dust vac or shop vac to catch most of the dust.
If they are real long boards , then I use a belt sander. you can choose to either handle the board or the machine, depending on size.
I like to get down into the wood and make it flat then finish it. that usually requires taking off the thickness of a coin or so. what happens if you try to just go part way then you get through some spots and not others and it shows since the wood naturally builds a darkened layer near it's outside surfaces.
If you care to "save the patina" then it's more work. I'd do that more on a door or a table or something I didn't want to sand so much. If you are saving the patina then scraping may show so in that case chemicals will prevent a lot of scratching and marking.
If the chemicals and the machines make the work easier then it's an option to go that route and avoid a lot of nit picking at surface defects that you can just sand through.
the boards then come out a tad lighter because you burned through the outer skin of darkened wood but It isn't laborious to just apply a bit of stain. i usually just do two coats of clear danish oil thinned with turps, to fill the voids, then If I feel its too light I put just a teeny bit of stain in my subsequent coats. You can use linseed oil and turps instead if you like. If you want a shellac overtop. or poly, that's easy to do at the end. I like to jut get a couple coats of oil down then later I can do more when it's in place if I like. at least then it has some finish to protect it in the meantime.
Sometimes if the boards are flat I wrap a bit of towel around a paint stick then some linen over-top. Put the plank on sawhorses. you can then just pour a puddle of the finish along the board and do one nice even swoop across with the padded stick. then no brush strokes and it's fast. discard the stick when you are done. just use a small brush on the edges. I find that really fast and leaves the coating very flat and even.
sometimes old baseboards have some cup or bow in them and you have to look at that and decide if you choose to flatten them or leave the imperfections in the board. flattening them can reduce the thickness. for casings this isn't such an issue since they aren't so wide but it's common for a baseboard to have as much as 1/4" of cup so if you flatten it then you reduce thickness and need to add it back on the backside, or live with it being thinner than original. I think if you opt to do it by adding thickness to the back then you can use the machines to do your work and that speeds things up a lot. if you want to flatten boards you can try laying them on the grass in the sun. the side that's down will expand. sometimes I want to remove cup and bow to get them flat then later if they try to go back a bit towards where they were, that's ok. this saves removing more than necessary.
while a thickness planer can be thousands. there are "lunchbox" planers made by makita, rigid, dewalt etc. these things are loud but they work really well and they dont require a lot of space to store them. you can buy a new one for probably around $400 or maybe 200 for a used one so it pays for itself fast. I like to look for used stuff and then if I dont pay new prices I can always sell it again if I want to.
It depends on how much space you have and how much you enjoy doing woodwork. i enjoy having the abilitis to make things so I dont mind buying the odd tool but it isn't for everyone.
If your really want o cut lots of molding profiles you can get a shaper, but you can do a lot with just a router or a molding head on a tablesaw.
I mounted a router upside down to the side table of my tablesaw. this saves space. If I use it I just raise it up above the table. I can use the fence as a guide if I wish. You can get crank mechanisms that drop in to make that easier if you like. that's an option. I like to use that for roundovers, or just do them freehand with a router if they are real long and awkward.
If you choose to go with new material then you have new wood to work with so you won't have paint or embedded nails to deal with. You still may find that the wood comes as unfinished wood, or you can go buy finished planks. If you want to end up with a full 1 inch then you need to start with 5/4 I'd consider making them hollow to save wood cost but you can see how the retailer sells the stuff.
a good way to get wood is to watch craigslist. youll occasionally see where an old dtime woodworker is moving and then he will often sell what he has at a lot lower price than you will pay for new lumber. Ive found that sometimes this wood has been sitting for years in some dry location so it is really well seasoned and stable.
If you use wood with a lot of figure, You'll have warpage. It will normalize as you size it down or if you get lumber that is a bit green you may want to bring it in to your house and let it sit a year so it dries and stabilizes. I've bought it from small mills where it was green and wet and than i had to sticker and stack it , put a fan on it and give it time to stabilize. If it's going to go wavy or cupped you want that to happen before you work with it. If you pay the higher price you may buy wood that is finish grade with a low moisture content but it is something to discuss and think about if you make a purchase. It's not uncommon for piles of planks to be sitting for years so if you find it in a dry location where it has sat a long time that's good.
even if the wood has sat a long time and is at the same humidity as your house , when you start cutting it down to size you cna see warpage take place because you are relieving internal stresses. If it's long perfectly straight grain from huge trees then you'l see less movement. if it's all curly and full of exciting figure then it may look really beautiful and have a lot of ribbon and reflect the light in fun ways. how it is cut, if it is vertical grain, or flat sawn or quartersawn will also affect it's price and stability.
if you take a cut and dried plank and process it to make it it's 4 sides even then you loose wood. if that plank has a slight bend or twist over it's length then you'll make more sawdust ( loose more material) if it's a long plank. If all that is needed is a 4 ' piece then it's cheaper to cut it to closer to 4' then trim it. If you need it to be 10' then that's more sawdust you'll be making before you reach a point where the 4 sides are square to each other and even and flat.
depending on the type of lumber you are buying and what you are striving for you may find these things greatly affect your yield. You'll need to overbuy to account for waste but the process you use and the type of wood can change the yield and the amount needed quite a bit. If the wood you buy is a high grade then you'll usually have less waste but the price will go up per board foot. You can make the most beautiful things from knotty old crating lumber but you need to allow for how it reacts to the process you are using.
when you get your lumber you may find you have big knots warpage, pitch lines and other imperfections that you want to avoid so picking where each plank goes is important. i would suggest first selecting the longest ones you need and work down from there so you dont corner yourself.
as it dries you'll get some checking from the ends. you can paint the ends to help but if the wood isn't perfect, you'll loose some to checking so you want your boards a bit longer. It can be a real thinking game for a woodworker to get the best out and to use the material wisely and reduce waste. I would take some of the nicest stuff and lay it aside , plan to use that for another project and keep it. then if you goof up a bit you aren't stuck.
near me fir is the most common but if you have choices, who's to say it must be the same species? could it be white wood or plywood with a veneer? you can use a veneer and build up just an edge with a profile by using a strip of your choice material. no one will ever care what the bulk is made of , it's what you see that's important for finish trim. It doesn't seem super common but you an get edge grain fir veneer too. most veneer is thin but you can cut your own 1/4" thick veneer if you choose to. some use MDF or HDF It's stable so long as moisture doesn't get involved. I prefer not to use it but many finishing carpenters do like using it for structure. one cheap way may to laminate your choice of wood on mdf and use some thick strips near any molding profiles. Then you ave no warpage and the final look could be very similar. If you were to do a whole house of molding you could consider consulting with a joiner. you could have a joiner make up your stock and then simply install it. they have special hydraulic presses to clamp the veneer up to MDF for this reason.
Yes, a belt sander removes material quickly. I will often run mine on a 45' and finish with the grain and of course go through the grits. how you hold it is important, yes you can make gouges very quickly if you aren't careful. ont hign you can do is even though you fiure youll need say 60 grit, try using 220 first. that will help youget used to the action weight and pressure and youll see the indents etc. and then you can always go more coarse after you gain confidence. of course like with any other sanding you need to go through the grits, each time erasing the machine marks of the previous machine.
Its possible to think your board is flat and nice and then apply a finish to see machine marks jumping out that you were not aware existed int he raw wood state. raw sanded , finished lumber is also very sensitive to marks like if you drag somethign across it can make an indent that is hard to notice but jumps out later. for that reason I like to use an oil , then if I see stuff and want ot sand more I do , and then continue. If you jump straight to poly or shellac then if it happens you have more stuff to remove to correct the issue. the oil also sort of pops the grain which I like as I think it looks more beautiful.
another technique you can try is to get the board to the point where you begin finishing and then apply the oil about twice, then start applying the oil with about 320 grit wet or dry paper. dip the paper in a dish of oil occasionally and sand with the grain. It takes off dust from the high points and buries it in the grain voids. keep doing that and you need no other finish and it looks really beautiful. leaves the wood silky smooth and with a "below the surface finish" so the light isnt; passing through the finish, the effect is that you look into the grain and see the ribbon and beauty more than if you use a topcoat which interferes with your view of the grain.
dry down after every application. if it gets sticky use more turps and dry down more with clean towels.
if it's a previous finish I like to use 1/3 vinegar, 1/3 turpos, 1/3 linseed oil or dainish oil. rub it on , clean the item with it. rub it all off, leave a day between, repeat. if it has a finish like lacquer or poly then there is really no absorption but if there are scratches and areas of missing finish then it replaces the voids with oil finish. the finish won't build except where there are scratches or roughness. anywhere with no porosity comes back off at wipedown.
the vinegar is there for cleaning. it can be omitted if you are repeating the action but it helps not to bury dirt within the finish.
