A New Vexation

A place to hang out, chat and post general discussion topics. (Non-technical posts here)
User avatar
mjt
Shakes a cane at new house owners
Posts: 557
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:04 am
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Contact:

Re: A New Vexation

Post by mjt »

phil wrote:you didn't see humor in the video , I'm not in control of whether you thought it was humorous. it was quite on point and maybe you need to just try to lighten up. None of us are here with an objective of creating tension. It's a bit sad that you see a lot of things that way. If you are feeling depressed then perhaps the issue is not one to make fun of and I'm sorry if it felt like I was making fun of you or in whatever negative light you received it in.
Phil


Dude. Stop.

Apologies NEVER, NEVER, NEVER have the word "if" in them. Apologies are about taking responsibility for your actions, not pushing responsibility to the other person. For example, compare and contrast these two:
- "I'm sorry if you were offended by my joke."
- "I'm sorry that I told that joke."

phil
Has many leather bound books
Posts: 4616
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:11 pm
Location: Near Vancouver BC

Re: A New Vexation

Post by phil »

- "I'm sorry if you were offended by my joke."
- "I'm sorry that I told that joke."

both statements above are correct english. maybe you should read them over again.

User avatar
Nicholas
Shakes a cane at new house owners
Posts: 578
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:23 am
Location: The Winter Strawberry Capitol of the World

Re: A New Vexation

Post by Nicholas »

Another thought:

Maybe you should go after the city for issuing a permit for an improper location of the vent tube.
1915 Frame Vernacular Bungalow

"If it ain't leanin' or a little crooked then it ain't got character"
- local resident

The BumbleBee House

Kashka-Kat
Stalwart
Posts: 369
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:39 am

Re: A New Vexation

Post by Kashka-Kat »

I too would like to extend my sincere sympathy. When your home ... the one place in the world thats suposed to be a refuge.... whent it is being poisoned there is a pain in your heart that is so deep - hard to understand until youve experienced it.

I too moved into a less than perfect, but at the time liveable situation, only to have it change over time into a place I really don't want to be. Some of us have limited funds and can only choose among lesser of evils. I decided I couldnt take busy streets or strong smells, but could tolerate trains. There is one that goes behind my house, about 70 ft from my house.

Before purchasing, I asked whether they used herbicides and they said no, they mowed. And they did, for 5 yrs but then switched to herbicide that became so over the top that the smell of it would fill my house & the entire neighborhood for days on end and damaged and killed off plants in my back yard, on my side of property line. My cat s health suffered - he's one of those that HAS to be outside or he gets depressed and makes everyone elses life a living hell with his constant complaining.

So I made him a back yard pen (yes you can fence a cat!) which was great except the dang railroad continually neglected to tell us when they were going to spray (as they were supposed to , per city agreement). A few times he was out there when the spray truck went by. It took me a long time to catch on and see cause and effect because everyone I asked about it - city, railroad rep, etc. - lied or denied there could be a problem.

After about 3 years of noticing my cats health declining -mysteriously hed get better over the winter, only to go downhill again in over spring and summer . In Spring 2018 I had to take him to ER 1 day after application with severe respiratory distress. The vet confirmed his symptoms were consistent with herbicide exposure but there was no way to test to confirm it.

Late summer 2018 they sprayed again and this time most of my back yard plants were decimated. This time - I (and another household) filed complaints with state of WI agency which administers EPA regs which prohibit herbicide from being used in a way that does not follow correct protocol and which damages other peoples property. The investigators took plant samples and cited the applicator for a number of things.... and in 2019 the impact was much much less. Only a narrow swath of yellow next to the tracks and nothing like the wholesale destruction of past years.

I still live in fear that they may someday start up again (very possible, especially if the current regime undoes EPA and federal pesticide regulations) so am planning my exit strategy.

In the meantime, some other air quality problems have reared their ugly head - including new nutjob neigbors whose laundry exhaust is literally 8 ft from our windows and who run some super-smelly laundry products in their dryer often for hours on end every evening and entire weekends they are home. I suspect they are covering up smoking and/or get off on the fumes or who knows why. Its just bizarre

And then across the street, a once quiet office has now become a deli food prep faciltiy so we get this nasty stale garlic and other food odors that have a sour edge like vomit, not like home cooking or anything youd want to smell.

SIGH.

Anyway OP. It sounds like youve already tried some govt regulatory entity that could take this on? Are there any nonprofit environmental organizations that can advise/ help you with this? Finding others in same or similar situation is good too - otherwise the people you talk to tend to think its only YOU, like youre some overly sensitive paranoid person . All i can say is having the scientific proof - the investigators found herbicide residue on my plants - was a total game changer for us here.

Best wishes, Cathy in WI

phil
Has many leather bound books
Posts: 4616
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:11 pm
Location: Near Vancouver BC

Re: A New Vexation

Post by phil »

the parts per million can be measured. If Willa is concerned she can have tests done.
I would also note that your nose can pick up smells way before unsafe levels are reached. for example if I got one drop of gasoline on my hands I could smell that an hour later but if you did tests, the results would not show a significant health risk within the surrounding air.

stuff they spread around railways to kill plants, That's a completely different chemical, and yes they have at least in the past had access to some nasty stuff for that reason. If you look near any railway you wont see anything growing and aside from that the creosote they put on the timbers is also nasty stuff.

Its common practice for the parts per million of contaminants to me measured within a workplace. If an employee has a concern the WCB (in Canada the WCB is the workman's compensation board - in the US it will be a different authority. ) can do that. If the air is unsafe for workers then the employer needs to fix the situation but just because they dont "like the smell" that may not be a determining factor to make a decision. It needs to be measured and quantified to have meaning. There are standards for this otherwise the WCB would not be able to stand behind a decision such as to force a plant to add more ventilation. In many circumstances this involves a significant cost.

My point is it can be quantified and if it is a significant concern this will prove or disprove the question of weather it poses a significant health risk or merely an annoyance due to the odor. In order to address the safety risk it needs to be quantified otherwise it is meaningless to authorities. lots of study goes into determining these quantified amounts.

It will mean speaking about a number like so many parts per million of a specific substance ( or several of them ) and not a perception like ( it kinda stinks or it really stinks or it has a pungent odor)

If Willa has a significant concern for her health it may be worth looking into the numbers as that data is very important in such a determination. If she could show significant numbers then that's how to move it ahead as She would then have a basis for complaints that is more than just a perception linked to an un-calculated risk and subsequent fears.

some chemicals it could present a significant risk even below the level of perceived scent . The type of contaminant is part of the measurement not just the PPM. you need both for it to have any significance.

if this is enough of a concern to be worried then perhaps its' worth having some testing done to make determinations. The light is a different issue.

phil
Has many leather bound books
Posts: 4616
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:11 pm
Location: Near Vancouver BC

Re: A New Vexation

Post by phil »

Kashka-Kat wrote:

In the meantime, some other air quality problems have reared their ugly head - including new nutjob neigbors whose laundry exhaust is literally 8 ft from our windows and who run some super-smelly laundry products in their dryer often for hours on end every evening and entire weekends they are home. I suspect they are covering up smoking and/or get off on the fumes or who knows why. Its just bizarre



I went shopping and bought a vau pack of bars of dove soap. Figured its mild and pretty normal. I put it in the bathroom, next day I opened the door and it really gave off a stink like no other. I hadn't even broken the packaging seal. I put it by the back fence and it was gone in notime, maybe it helped some street people or someone who needed it.

maybe if pot is illegal where you are they could be growing it and putting it in the dryer, perhaps masking the smell. If they have to hide it because it's prohibited then maybe it's done in some weird way to cover the smell. the dryer could be like a food dehydrator or similar. dryer sheets and soap may be heavily perfumed. I wonder if they are aware, perhaps moving the vent on the exterior wouldn't be a huge cost? If they are drying weed they may also be using a charcoal filter or similar. of course drying wouldnt go on forever if at allunless it was a lot of production.

Ending prohibition solved a lot of that here because it's legal for up to 4 plants and that satisfied most , other than maybe people living in compartments. They may have building rules. other signs may be things like snow melting weirdly fast in parts of the house, or covered windows and unless you were born just yesterday you probably know the odor. some strains are more pungent. I dont mind the smell myself ;-) If they are boozers you will pick up on the loud music and childish behavior usually.

here is what i suspect more :
often they use a grow booth the fan connects near the light and takes the excess heat and smell away. a trick is to blow it down into the sewer if it is illegal. if so that fan may run with the lights or all the time. the lights will cycle through a time switch so you could notice it starting and stopping on a certain schedule. when they are growing over 12 hours and when flowering 12 hours or less probably. they smell a lot more when they flower. the fan could run with the lights or all the time. It will probably be a schedule.

the plants need fresh air and the heat is somewhat eliminated using LED's and that's common it will be a red or purple light probably. otherwise if it is a high pressure sodiium or metal halide it will just be really bright light.
I grew my 4 outside last year but since the hours of light are longer than I needed to flower properly , I brought them in for a month or so and then I had some smell and the fan going. I know my neighbors and they dont care, they know what it is and I'm not doing anything illegal. If it did bother them I'd do something. in their case maybe you could decide what to say. maybe the pot smell wouldn't bug you but some are super sensitive. I wondered of they are using a cover up scent and that scent is worse to you than anything. If that were the case it might be as simple as to ask them to stop trying to hide it. That's my guess for your weird fan situation, it would explain the long run times. Just a guess.

User avatar
mjt
Shakes a cane at new house owners
Posts: 557
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:04 am
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Contact:

Re: A New Vexation

Post by mjt »

phil wrote:- "I'm sorry if you were offended by my joke."
- "I'm sorry that I told that joke."

both statements above are correct english. maybe you should read them over again.


I'm not talking about grammatically correct English. I'm talking about what those sentences *mean*. They mean very different things.

The first places the blame on the person who was offended. That is, I'm apologizing for what I said if and only if you were offended, otherwise I'm not apologizing.

The second takes responsibility *regardless* of whether anyone was offended or not. That is, I recognize that I said something inappropriate.

phil
Has many leather bound books
Posts: 4616
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:11 pm
Location: Near Vancouver BC

Re: A New Vexation

Post by phil »

have you been in a situation where someone is complaining incessantly about something that they are caught up in , and then someone interjected with humor in an effort to ease the tension rather than playing into the drama of it all and perpetuating a dismal conversation? That's different from making fun of someone or telling them to stop and it is different from making light of the situation that has them stressed out.
Making light of a situation that a person is stressed about may be perceived as insulting, because then you are effectively saying that what they are complaining about doesn't matter. Sometimes injecting humor into a difficult conversation is an effective means of allowing the topic to continue but with a smile in between. Of course then the person who is stressed may choose to take offense, but offering such opportunity isn't always something a person should feel sorry about or regret. Not if the intention wasn't made in an effort to cause hurtful feelings for example. Also there is a different meaning between feeling sorry for someone and being sorry for something you did.
In this particular situation there was no intent to cause hurt through belittlement or insult or anything of the sort. Its interesting because often people say they are sorry but they dont actually feel sorrow. It is often said to ease tension and feelings and not because they have regret. This is common in many situations. an example, I see people say I'm sorry because they accidentally stepped in front of me and didn't anticipate my movements but I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that they felt regret or anything like that so in many circumstances it is about the context.

something similar is when people make a statement ending in a one word question like right? eg "the sky is grey today right? and yesterday it was sunny." and then the person keeps talking. In insertion of the word "right?" actually put the person in the situation of listening to it in the position to interject and say "no it was a bit sunny today too" for example. but since the short question was used in the context where the person did not take time for the person to answer it , it wasn't actually a question but part of a statement. You could change the context of the statement but keep the word right in there and in common language the word right and it's infliction and change the meaning of the statement. like above how you changed my words around and minced them the way people speak can change their meaning without the words even changing. This is because so much is read into the context of how they were delivered.
I find that often it is not just the way words are said but how they are interpreted. on a few occasions I was speaking with someone local and indigenous. I noticed that the person made statements that were very direct. My first impulse was to think gee the person is being rude by being so blunt but after much thought I realized that wasn't the case. I found other instances that were similar and eventually realized that although we are of course both speaking english. They had a slightly different custom and instead of dancing around a subject they were direct. It came off to me as insulting but when I put it into context I realized that they simply had a habit of being more direct and that if they were speaking to someone from the same village they would not have interpreted the statement as being so direct that it was insulting. It made me realize that sometimes people just speak differently and there was no insult implied. in rationalizing that I found that there are many instances where it is customary for people to dance around a subject in politeness rather than to come off directly which may be insulting. after you have known someone a while and realize their intention sometimes this alone can prove to you if their words were mean to be insulting or hurtful, OR if they were simply being direct. In type, such as a forum it is more difficult to pick up on the nuances of persons habit of conversation and often times people become insulted because they read things in a different context than if they were spoken out loud and in conversation.

since my words, or the link to a funny comedy skit were not used in an effort to belittle or insult or hurt anyone I dont actually feel sorrow. at most I feel a bit sorry for some people who are unable to see the humor in it. I could have chosen to simply say "im sorry" in an effort to save face but that wasn't what I intended and the words you highlighted do have different meanings. Its OK that you made that differentiation so bluntly but I dont choose to change my words . Does that make more sense?

1918ColonialRevival
Knows where blueprints are hidden
Posts: 907
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:58 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD
Contact:

Re: A New Vexation

Post by 1918ColonialRevival »

I'm sure this has been asked, but have you tried speaking with an attorney? I'm not sure how the system in Canada works, but in the US many attorneys do not charge for an initial consult. If they think you have a case, some of them will wait and collect their fee once damages are awarded. It wouldn't hurt to contact a few and ask.

The city should have a paper trail of who approved the construction of that gas station and all its associated atrocities. I'm surprised they allowed one to be built so close to a residence - it's not like it was a gas station from 70 years ago that was grandfathered.

Post Reply