The Historic District

mjt wrote:FYI - Schluter's Kerdi waterproofing membrane can be installed over drywall, doesn't require special chemicals, and you won't have to worry about whether tile will bond to it... It is available at Home Depot.

(I have no connection to Schluter other than as a satisfied customer - I used their BEKOTECH modular screed for the hydronic heat and Ditra uncoupling products on the floor in our master bath. I'm also not afraid to "engineer" a solution myself, but only after I cannot find a product that's already made for what I'm trying to do.)

Thanks for the info on the Kerdi stuff. I'm going to have to do this eventually. Here's a video from a DIY guy I like on how to install it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amzB2UqTGfI

I have used Schluter on several bathrooms and I like it. I have only one complaint about waterproofing the walls. You have to overlap the membrane by a couple of inches in the corners and at any seams, which creates a slight hump. If you are using larger format tiles, rather than small tiles or mosaics, it can create problems with the tiles lying smoothly over the humps. I haven't figured out how to solve this.

But I love the uncoupling Ditra for the floor! It's extremely easy to use, and feels completely solid underfoot. I tiled the floor of my screen porch--12' x 24'--with 24x24 tiles and used the Ditra. It's been over 6 years in heat and freezing temperatures and not one joint has cracked!

awomanwithahammer wrote:I have used Schluter on several bathrooms and I like it. I have only one complaint about waterproofing the walls. You have to overlap the membrane by a couple of inches in the corners and at any seams, which creates a slight hump. If you are using larger format tiles, rather than small tiles or mosaics, it can create problems with the tiles lying smoothly over the humps. I haven't figured out how to solve this.

But I love the uncoupling Ditra for the floor! It's extremely easy to use, and feels completely solid underfoot. I tiled the floor of my screen porch--12' x 24'--with 24x24 tiles and used the Ditra. It's been over 6 years in heat and freezing temperatures and not one joint has cracked!

Bonnie, this information is a lifesaver! I've been worrying and worrying that I won't be able to put tile down anywhere in my house because I'm not sure it isn't still moving with frost heaves from the garage. It sounds like using the Ditra will set my mind at ease.

Hire a competent professional to install a shower pan/membrane system that they have reliably used before. The last thing you would ever want to deal with is a ceiling leak below, and having to rip out all that tile to repair or replace. I would look for an older person who understands what you are describing (and show them a few good photos of exactly what you are talking about). There might be some younger tile hot shots who have an understanding and flair for vintage looking renovations, too. Steer clear of young braggadocio types who cannot show you any photos of completed work, and are only used to modern systems for installation

Willa wrote:Hire a competent professional to install a shower pan/membrane system that they have reliably used before. The last thing you would ever want to deal with is a ceiling leak below, and having to rip out all that tile to repair or replace.

This!

A nightmarish video of a contractor who went back to investigate why his tile job failed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYEzZa4n5xE

If you can believe it, my bathroom floor was worse - dangerous! Isaac Ostrom's videos are pretty informative.

The upstairs bathroom is under partial demolition, which is necessary to do a thorough job with this bathroom renovation. The shower stall (from 1990s) and rotten floor will be gutted but original plaster walls, and trim will be retained. The ceiling of the serving pantry, directly below, has also been removed. Termite/rot damage repairs will be done before work proceeds on installation of plumbing, shower pans, tile, etc. Even when the job is complete, pantry ceiling will be beadboard panels, easily removable for access to plumbing from below.

I spent at least an hour watching shower failure videos last night. I'm grateful for my clawfoot tub !

It's good that you have the area opened, including the room below, so there can be no guesswork about the state of things within the walls or floor.

The videos I watched all seemed to have the commonality of work that shouldn't have failed - but with minor deviations like a different drain assembly or earlier version of a product that did cause the failure. It's terrifying that even with licensed, experienced professionals these issues happened. I also watched a little of a UK series inspecting failed showers that had really sloppy work within the walls that could only doom the house they were in.

I'd speak with an experienced tiler. They will know what they like to see and will have lots of experience with failures. you could ask them about what they will or will not stand behind if it does fail. I can see a situation where both are pointing fingers if you had one guy do the surround and another tile it. Of course if you do it all yourself it's an option and you'd know who to blame. That would probably be my route as I hate hiring people If I feel I can do it myself. I dont put faith in warrantees. Ive never collected on one like that and I think most often they want o refund the product. for a thing like a shower leak the expense of the waterproofing system would be small compared to the overall cost of fixing a problem. The most important think is avoiding that situation at all costs.

a lot of TV shows are basically drama , like homes on homes, you wont learn much from that. There are so many videos on youtube how to videos I'd watch that for a few evenings and then you can sort of gather general info rather than just going on one guy's opinion. I'd watch the manufacturer's videos but take them with a pinch of salt because obviously their motivation in posting them is to sell you on stuff. I don't watch the ones that have a bunch of silly music, or if they dont edit them and then show a half an hour of putting screws in or something .. but there are many great ones and often the posts that follow have good questions from viewers. some are diligent in answering the questions , others not so much. Many are like taking a free course from your couch. I think if you start doing that many will explain why they like a particular system and perhaps some info about of the faults of the competing brands. Searching for videos about failures as Willa mentions could help too. The better videos will start with an introduction and tell you what they are about to show you and present it professionally but even some that are sloppy at making the videos actually do know their stuff.

If you consult with just one tiler you are only going off his opinion, that may be good, but not necessarily. If you've watched a ton of video on it then call him it would give you more good questions to ask and maybe avoid having to waste his/her time with questions on the real basics. If he starts talking about various systems it's better if you can picture them, then you can have more productive conversation.

I think you are much more likely to have a contractor working responsibly if he feels you have some knowledge and can at least "talk the talk" It's much the same for people who take their car to a mechanic. the mechanic will quickly pick up on the person's knowledge and if they want to pull a fast one or cut corners, replace unnecessary parts, they will do that more with the customers that are not knowledgeable than the back yard mechanics that will naturally be analyzing their work more closely. If they can see you coming , look out. James already has experience with laying tile.

You make quite a few good points, Phil. You mentioned how failure videos and the comments below can be educational too. I agree and find negative reviews about products can be useful as well. I look at the 1 and 2 star reviews to see what people say. If there are enough reviews to see the same problem appear repeatedly, it's probably best to steer clear.