Another one claimed by greed....

[1918ColonialRevival]

...Yesterday I spoke to someone at a boiler company in Mobile that has been in operation since 1946. I asked him if installation of cast iron radiators was unusual there. "Yes sir," he said, "but people who have them love them." I think I may have found the company I want to work with.

I knew you'd find somebody! That's the kind of thing you want to hear when you speak to these contractors. Hope it goes well.

[Manalto]

Thank you, I think it will. Your endorsement of cast iron radiators and encouragement to pursue that method of heating played no small part in my decision to persist, for which I'm grateful.

And he called me "sir"!

[phil]

houses are looked upon as business ventures. profit and greed are the same thing essentially and money has no conscience. people are often thrown off by advertising that states things that suggest "we care" or this particular "corporation cares". those are humanistic tendencies in which no corporation or business entity can possibly possess. To think a business can have human traits would of course be utter nonsense. This doesn't stop companies from advertising in ways that suggest they have conscience and humans are so used to accepting such claims they often don't realize how absurd that is.
Perhaps investors can have conscience and control over expenditures but this is impossible for business, especially when the business is owned by shareholders who really only care about the current value of their stocks. In that case "good business" refers to profit and not morals. If morals are put above profit then that would be "bad business"
Most antique restorers including old house owners and more driven by pride than profit and they do have conscience because now we are referring to humans.

here we have a major telecom that advertises "the future is friendly" every time I hear that I think how stupid do they think we are? Their main advertising line is based upon a ridiculous notion that doesn't even make sense. the tag line is on every van and every piece of advertising. The part I find a bit sad is this obviously works because it is a huge corporation that has obviously studied the effects of different advertising practices very carefully. -So yes .. yes we we are that stupid. Maybe gullible is a nicer term.

[phil]

I've run into that plenty of times (as I'm sure all of you have) and lately it's been in response to inquiries about outfitting a heating system with my cast-iron radiators. (If I hear the words "mini splits" one more time I think I'll spontaneously combust.) Yesterday I spoke to someone at a boiler company in Mobile that has been in operation since 1946. I asked him if installation of cast iron radiators was unusual there. "Yes sir," he said, "but people who have them love them." I think I may have found the company I want to work with.

the radiators sound so nice I'm starting to want them How do you plan to heat the water?

I always thought the perfect situation would be a separate little cement block building with a fire pit big enough for pallets or whatever you wood you can find free and a large insulated tank over the fire. maybe a thousand gallons or so.. then you could burn a good fire and if the tank was large enough you wouldn't have to run out to stoke the fire at night. I think this could be done safely and you would have no combustion taking place in the house and a brick building cant' burn down if it has no combustibles. the problem is the fire insurance hates any idea like that. If you have a brick fireplace they are OK with that. maybe someone out on an acreage could do this, In my city its definitely not possible unless it is done on a commercial scale. My brother has 5 acres an hour from town but the insurance still doesn't treat him any differently. some communities are even outright banning wood.. Id try this if I thought I could get away with it. you could burn a lot of different stuff, even Ikea furniture and stuff like that. old mattress frames after they remove the stuffing seem to be in continuous supply for free. not too hard to find free burning materials if your fire pit is a decent size and you can leave any nails in then retrieve them from the ash with a magnet later.

[GinaC]

I've run into that plenty of times (as I'm sure all of you have) and lately it's been in response to inquiries about outfitting a heating system with my cast-iron radiators. (If I hear the words "mini splits" one more time I think I'll spontaneously combust.) Yesterday I spoke to someone at a boiler company in Mobile that has been in operation since 1946. I asked him if installation of cast iron radiators was unusual there. "Yes sir," he said, "but people who have them love them." I think I may have found the company I want to work with.

I am so jealous! The guy I had build my new front deck/steps did a great job with that, and I'd love to use him for other projects, but he keeps telling me to just put new windows in. I'd have to watch him like a hawk for any indoor jobs, and I'm really not up to that.

The plumbing company that came to switch out one of my toilets came today to install a new water heater and move it to a better area in the basement to give me more "laundry room" space down there. They did a really fantastic job and I can now fill up my HUGE original cast iron tub!

Anyway, I asked them for names of contractors to help me with the wall situation, and they gave me some names. I really hope one of them is an appreciator of old houses. When I was house shopping, my realtor's handyman came along, and he and I see eye to eye. But he's down for the count since he had two full knee replacements this year! I found him walking around at Wal-Mart a week after his first surgery and told him to get home and rest for Pete's sake. He's very eager to work, but I worry about him and I don't want to load him up.

[Manalto]

...I spoke to someone at a boiler company in Mobile...

the radiators sound so nice I'm starting to want them How do you plan to heat the water?

I'm hoping the boiler company can help me out with that. They made the distinction between heating boilers and boilers for water that will be consumed. If I'm going to use one boiler for both, it will be more expensive because the tubing is copper in a boiler that produces potable hot water.

I'm within city limits so, the inconveniences of a fire pit aside, I suspect there are restrictions on continuous open burning. My boiler will probably be fueled by natural gas.

How did we get here from the disheartening story of a beautiful Italianate house being demolished?

[phil]

perhaps the water for radiators has something in it like for anti corrosion or to improve heat transfer if it's a closed loop system but others know more about that. I've been wondering if the on demand systems are worth having if it could replace my old tank. If the tank fails I'll probably go with another tank to make it happen faster but I could see how the on demand system has some benefits but it needs a bit more planning for the venting and installation. . It would be nice to get both the heater and water tank to vent up a pipe. It's probably not great for my chimney. my dad made some coils of copper that sat in the wood burning heater and they preheated water that was fed int ot he water tank. It worked well but I do remember once where he started the fire without turning the water on which was not good for the plumbing connections. others have done similar by using some black ABS on their roof so that the water is warm. thats great until it's freezing out then they would need to be drained. Judging by how hot the roofing gets it would probably really increase efficiency in the summer. easy to do plastic pipe is cheap easy to glue together but a but ugly maybe.

watched a documentary about Australia where they are providing grants for people to put solar cells on the roof and a big battery. the system is then connected to the grid so the power company buys some power from you and you take power as needed. power cant be stored so the theory was that if people installed these things it can be used to buffer the power grid because power is in demand during the day and can't be stored at night. commercially power is cheaper at night so that's when you'd do things like fire an electric boiler when the power is cheap. I'm not sure the power utilities charge different rates to any homeowners. I definitely pay a standard rate but with the new electronic meters they can see usage by the minute.

I remember reading a thing where they wanted to drain our lake, its 13 miles long two miles wide. the theory was they could pump the lake down by 6 inches at night up to a man made lake. Then reclaim the power through generators at night using the lake as a battery. problem was it would also be environmentally damaging.

i guess one difference with gas is that it can be stored so they dont really care when you use it. maybe the power companies could create a night rate that was cheaper so users could do things like fire their boilers when the power is cheaper. from what I see the gas is still cheaper per BTU so not many heat with electric but maybe it will come sooner than we think. at least with a boiler you might not be locked in. You may have a choice how you heat the tank if electric does become the cheaper alternative. where I am the power increases in rate if I go over a certain limit so that probably discourages using it for heat.

[1918ColonialRevival]

Gas or oil are the two most common fuels for boiler heating. Oil seems to be more of a Mid-Atlantic and Northeast fuel, so gas will probably be the way to go in Alabama.

Water for heating radiators and hot water that comes out of the faucet have to be separated. In a unit that heats both, there will be two supplies and two outputs. It's literally like having two appliances in the same enclosure. The supply for heating the radiators will have to be fitted with a backflow valve that will keep the water from the closed loop system from entering the potable supply.

Nothing is typically added to the water that goes into the radiators; however, by it being a closed loop system, adding/removing any water from it will introduce air into the system that has to be bled out. Otherwise, your radiators won't heat evenly. Also, I'd say water that has been circulated over and over through a cast iron system wouldn't be the best to drink.

[Manalto]

...however, by it being a closed loop system, adding/removing any water from it will introduce air into the system that has to be bled out...

My understanding is that a "bleed valve" (I can't recall the correct term for this unless it's bleed valve), positioned higher than the tallest radiator, is the simplest way to keep air out of the system.

Gina, my best advice for finding someone who has a like-minded approach isn't very helpful - just keep asking around. It's been hit or miss for me. The plumber who recommended the boiler guy had installed my 1928 Glenwood stove (shown here newly installed and still sitting on milk crates - just cuz) so he had a good idea who he was dealing with.

[mjt]

Yes, it's called a bleed valve. Each radiator will have one at the highest point. You'll need to bleed the air out of each radiator, starting with the ones that are highest and furthest away from the hot water source.

I also have them at the manifolds for my in-floor radiant for the kitchen and master bath.

Because we removed and re-installed a radiator in the spring while doing tile work in the entry, I have to bleed my radiators this fall. I did most of them a week ago, but heard gurgling in one of them the other day which means it still has air in it. I'll need to bleed all of them again before cold sets in for real. It's going to be in the low 20s F tonight, so I still have time.