Opinions about spray painting the undersink cabinet, please.

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Lily left the valley
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Re: Opinions about spray painting the undersink cabinet, please.

Post by Lily left the valley »

Manalto wrote:Nice. Well worth keeping. Very fine sandpaper will remove the scratches. Metal polish works great on Bakelite, believe it or not. That's how I got my Victor adding machine looking good:

ImageVictor adding machine 003 by James McInnis, on Flickr
Yeah, that was one of the recommendeds. Your adding machine is gorgeous. :thumbup:
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1918ColonialRevival
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Re: Opinions about spray painting the undersink cabinet, please.

Post by 1918ColonialRevival »

Most metal polishes do a decent job on bakelite, as James's adding machine illustrates. Also, there's Novus 2, which was developed for polishing plastics, but I've found other uses for as well. There's also a polish that was specifically developed for bakelite telephones, but I can't remember the name of it offhand. Whatever you decide to use, make sure to test it in an inconspicuous area first.

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Re: Opinions about spray painting the undersink cabinet, please.

Post by Lily left the valley »

1918ColonialRevival wrote:Most metal polishes do a decent job on bakelite, as James's adding machine illustrates. Also, there's Novus 2, which was developed for polishing plastics, but I've found other uses for as well. There's also a polish that was specifically developed for bakelite telephones, but I can't remember the name of it offhand. Whatever you decide to use, make sure to test it in an inconspicuous area first.
Thanks for the info. I was figuring to do the back of the pulls where the screw holes are for my testing, just in case.
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Re: Opinions about spray painting the undersink cabinet, please.

Post by Mick_VT »

A bit late to this. I like the rust removal suggestions, but will add "don't use primer". Use the appropriate color Rustoleum enamel. It does not need primer, (it self primes). Priming will leave a potentially softer layer of a different color below. I would sand and prep as others have said, then fill any pits with an skim of automotive Bondo, resand and smooth the bondo, then wet sand all over with fine "wet and dry". Allow to dry, mask off, tack cloth then hit with multiple light coats of Rustoleum as per the directions. Then leave it for a a few days without touching it to full ycure. You will have it looking like new!
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Re: Opinions about spray painting the undersink cabinet, please.

Post by Jeepnstein »

If you haven't started yet I'd strongly suggest getting one of these and a few bags of media. You could easily clean the cabinets in a few hours and have it ready for filler and finishing. For the cost of just one cheap big box store stock base cabinet or two you can be into sand blasting and probably spray painting as well.

https://www.harborfreight.com/portable-abrasive-blaster-kit-37025.html

https://www.harborfreight.com/20-fl-oz-HVLP-Gravity-Feed-Air-Spray-Gun-62300.html

https://www.harborfreight.com/21-gal-25-HP-125-PSI-Cast-Iron-Vertical-Air-Compressor-61454.html

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Re: Opinions about spray painting the undersink cabinet, please.

Post by Lily left the valley »

Jeepnstein wrote:If you haven't started yet I'd strongly suggest getting one of these and a few bags of media. You could easily clean the cabinets in a few hours and have it ready for filler and finishing. For the cost of just one cheap big box store stock base cabinet or two you can be into sand blasting and probably spray painting as well.

https://www.harborfreight.com/portable-abrasive-blaster-kit-37025.html

https://www.harborfreight.com/20-fl-oz-HVLP-Gravity-Feed-Air-Spray-Gun-62300.html

https://www.harborfreight.com/21-gal-25-HP-125-PSI-Cast-Iron-Vertical-Air-Compressor-61454.html

Oh nice, Jeep! We had a sandblasting room in the sculpture building in my art program that I used often. I was wondering if there was something smaller scale I might be able to use/afford, but hadn't made time to look it up yet. There are enough renos going on in this area that freebie cabinets on CL aren't too hard to find if I just keep my eyes open.

I haven't yet started anything other than basic clean up because we are still a bit short on kitchen storage, and need to be using what's there for now. They had shelf papered over whatever was sticking to the surfaces at the time. (Gross! :sick: )

I try to ask ahead of time for projects like this both for ideas and advice as well as it's easier to work in whatever is needed into our long term budget and my super rough "when will we do X" schedule. There's a lot of projects I likely won't touch this year because we're trying really hard to stick to budget because we've already had a few pressing surprises, however thankfully small.

I know Sean would use the set up as well for some of his crafting, and we've already been looking into compressors, so time will tell on when.

Thank you very much for this info. I really hope I get to put it to use in the not too distant future. :text-thankyouyellow: (I'm excited at the notion, really. There's so many uses for something like that!)
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Re: Opinions about spray painting the undersink cabinet, please.

Post by phil »

I'd use a cup brush on an electric drill to remove what you like
then use some wet or dry paper, you can use it wet about 60 grit is ok that will get the corners where the cup brush won't reach you could also try coarse steel wool and water or solvent ( wear a good glove) and just get it all as clean as you can. if the paint is stuck its fine leave it.

then I would treat this with "rust mort" or a similar rust inhibitor this will turn the rust black and allow it to accept the paint better, it won't remove the rust left but it will oxidize it and stabilize it.

then clean with water, before paint you might clean with alcohol or acetone to get rid of any greasy remnants. you could use fine wet or dry paper where the paint is ok just to get a good hold on the new paint. dip your paper in a saucer of water to keep the paper clean , it will cut better and the paper lasts way longer too.

let the paint harden up. if it's warm it dries faster. it'll be tougher after about 3 days or so.

Yes spray it with rustoleum or a similar rust primer I agree you don't really need the primer.

If you want to fill pitting I'd think about using autobody "glazing putty" rather than bondo. It sands easier and you don't need it thick anywhere. usually usually one would use bondo for autobody to fill dents and then use glazing putty to feather out and fix the bondo imperfections. it will come in a tube like toothpaste and you don't need to muck about adding hardners. use a plastic bondo spreader and a little acetone to clean your tools. bondo will work it's just hard to sand and feather out. there are also primers intended to be sandable that you could use. dont put it thick , in rounded corners like the bottom of the drawers you could just sort of smear it into the rust pits using a glove and your finger. dont ;put globs or youll be trying to sand them down. it's just the surface you might want to smooth out a little you aren't filling big dents so don't put it thick or you'll just make work for yourself.

naval jelly will work but I think if you just use the rust mort instead it will work ok and be faster.. if there are traces of rust it won't come back too easily because it shouldn't be wet in there normally. but if you have the Naval jelly already sure use it up it will be ok.
naval jelly dissolves the rust but might take a few applications to rid it of all the rust.
you can't do sandblasting in the house it would go everywhere.. , that would work fine outside but I think it is more extreme and I know you don't want the outlay for those tools right now for this.

you could opt to skip the naval gelly or rust mort and just give it a real good scrubbing using wet wet-or-dry sandpaper and steel wool. then get it super clean and dry before paint.

yea thin coats, allow dry time, not rocket science , if you put too much paint on it'll run.. just enough so you see it "flow out" then stop.

if you do more coats make sure it's dry or the paint might wrinkle up if you put more on before it's really dry. just leave it overnight between coats. Good practice to scuff sand with about 220 wet or dry paper between coats to knock off any pips caused by dust.

about Bakelite. when it is cast they used heat and pressure and pressed it into polished molds. the surface is originally mirror smooth as were the dies it was made with.
under that outside layer it is a sort of porus material. You could use the plastics polish. "Novus" is a good one and comes in different grits.

if you scrub or sand you can go through the outer layer of the Bakelite it can look flat instead of shiny. You can use your blopentine just like you would with wood to fill the microscopic voids and try to get the polished looking surface back. or car wax

you can also paint Bakelite with auto paint if you'd rather they were a different color.

If you ever wonder if something is Bakelite or plastic if you stick it with a hot pin somewhere inconspicuous. the plastic will melt, Bakelite won't

some pin striping might be fun, you can get artistic with it,, make it match your color scheme. That thing is going to look brilliant!

here's a sample of the glazing putty. you won't need much , this one is made by "bondo" which is actually a company not really the auto filler product but I would buy whatever brand you come across.

note that you can use it between coats too so I'd just do a quick job filling the rust voids, then paint first coat, and if there are more pits that bug you then do a bit more and then another coat. the paint itself would fill the pits if you do enough coats sanding between but the glazing putty will speed up the process, two coats is probably enough. I'd guess you need 2 spray bombs to do that thing inside and out.

http://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/a ... 079&rt=rud

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Re: Opinions about spray painting the undersink cabinet, please.

Post by Lily left the valley »

phil wrote:{snip}naval jelly will work but I think if you just use the rust mort instead it will work ok and be faster.. if there are traces of rust it won't come back too easily because it shouldn't be wet in there normally. but if you have the Naval jelly already sure use it up it will be ok.
naval jelly dissolves the rust but might take a few applications to rid it of all the rust.
you can't do sandblasting in the house it would go everywhere.. , that would work fine outside but I think it is more extreme and I know you don't want the outlay for those tools right now for this.

Thanks for all the tips, Phil. I do already have naval jelly.

The biggest challenge with the cabinet right now is that when they later installed the sheet lino, they did not lay it under the sink area. It's another reason why we feel like giants at the sink..the additional layers of the flooring plus the small throw we have there to cushion feet during dish washing sessions.

The original wood floor (not subfloor) is what is still there, directly under the sink area. If there is a finish on it, it was long ago washed away for the most part that I've seen so far. I need to look back under there some time with a good worklight.

If I'm right, the wood is pretty much bare, so any wet work would be the devil because trying to tarp the area would be quite challenging since there are also two original cabinets flanking either side. We have no way of knowing if the cabinets are hiding other surface rust since the "seams" from the edge of the sink to the counter tops has gaps despite several measures to fill the space between, so there may very well be more surface rust on either side.

It would make much sense whether I do eventually sandblast it or not to remove the cabinet to work on it. Since it has the center section cut out for the plumbing, I don't think it would be too impossible to do with proper support to the sink itself.

No matter what we decide, a total refinish is a long way off. I posted this to get ideas and opinions so I could mull them over until the budget allows for the refinish. I've taken off the contact paper because of all the grime trapped in it, and also to assess how bad the rust was overall.

Not sure if I mentioned this before, but the cabinet was repainted at some point, possibly twice from the coloration unless one layer was a base under the enamel, and one of the layers was a flat paint applied with a brush (that light taupe-y salmon of the time). It's a pretty darn good job with a brush, as there are only the faintest traces of the strokes, so I didn't notice it straight away.

I may still do some jelly in the short term only because the interior drawer rust is currently a problem because I don't want to do what they did--put the contact paper there. Yet if I do nothing, it will be hard to ensure what should be stored in those drawers stays clean, and I don't want to invest in temporary drawer bins because, budget. We already had a silverware bin, so that's the one drawer that is actually getting used, plus the two lower cabinets because they also have wooden insert bases. I do plan to clean up the cutting board later in the fall so that will get used. It has some discoloration we can't exactly understand, so we've been debating if we should attach a new board to the pull out mechanism instead.

Oh, and that cup brush you mentioned...you meant that as a surface rough, yes? Not for the cut outs I might do?

I've been pondering if our dremel can handle the deco detail cutting on the doors, and I think so. The metal isn't that thick. I may chicken out, though, and just paint the detail on the doors rather than cut it. Later on down the road, long after I shuffle off to what ever is next, someone may just hate deco, and if it's just paint, that'd be easier for them to get rid of than have to patch.
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Re: Opinions about spray painting the undersink cabinet, please.

Post by phil »

the cup brush is just a tool you can out on any electric drill and spin it. It will only remove the loose surface rust, not paint. equate it to what you could do with a wire brush. an angle grinder is more aggressive but reaching places like the bottom of drawers is tough.
If you want to remove paint use stripper but if you can sand it flat do that and paint over top.

I wouldn't worry about wetting the wood floor, It can take it.

If it sits on leveling feet you might be able to extend them to lift the cabinet up higher , otherwise just build a pedestal to make it higher.

when I did my kitchen I demo'd all the cabinets and just left the sink and plumbing and the upper counter. I just made a brace to hold the front edge up.

this way I could refinish the floor.

You can live for a while without the cabinet but you can't live without the sink hooked up for very long. you might consider picking up a cheap used cabinet and sink or even just a countertop and sink , and connecting that for the interim if you want to dig right into it. Then you can pull the cabinet. I think if you just work on it in place and dont' worry about bits you can't see it might be your best and lowest cost option. You can access them with later renos you can always worry about them later.

the deco detail I think I can visualize as a pattern of horizontal cutouts. you were thinking of making some cutouts. Yes you can cut with the dremil but you'd need a bunch of the little disc cutters , they are about the size of a penny and thin. You would go through a bunch of them but it would work.. it would be a bit noisy, but possible. the cuts would be oh lets say 1/8" to 1`/4" wide so your dremil will only cut the longer edges. to end them I would drill holes the width of your cutouts as you can't make short cuts wit the dremil. I'd drill the holes to end the cuts as the first step then use the dremil then you will have some finishing work to do with hand files to even up the cuts and square off the ends so the drill bit holes that end each cut are square instead of round. after the cutouts are open then you can use the edges of a flat file to finish up the cutouts so they are smooth and square at the ends where you previously drilled it.

if you play with the plumbiung you can consider adding a dishwasher hookup or a garberator or a pull out faucet while you change the plumbing.

Yea if you don't need it to be a vent , paint is easier. If you have the cash yea you could send the cabinet and have it blasted and painted but you can always do that later on. I think your best bet is just a cosmetic facelift done in place now because then all you really need is a couple spray cans and some elbow grease. I'd just knock the brush strokes down with sandpaper and go for it. that would be fastest and the biggest bang for your buck.

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