Ever get discouraged?

[Gothichome]

Ya, it happens Willa. You can always do more tomorrow. The only deadline is the one you make. Deadlines are for work, and work takes the fun out of things.

[Lily left the valley]

Wackyshack: kids these days ! What with their outrageous bathing demands (etc. etc.).

Personally I don't understand fancy victorian reno'd city houses where there are two bedrooms but four baths. Do the owners have kidney problems or something ?

Speaking of bathrooms - my calcimine and rotten plaster horror bathroom is making me feel glum. I'm trying to stick with it but am surely at the point of feeling overwhelmed and foolish. But if I stop the horror just stays. I am trying to move forward albeit with some fancy procrastinating.

When I see the four bathrooms, two bedrooms homes, I assume they old house tour their place. (half joking)

After seeing the dripping red, I'm imagining some bad B-movie paranormal rotten plaster horror.

[Wackyshack]

Willa... I laughed at the kidney problems. I don't get that either, like every bedroom has to be ensuite to be desirable.

All I have is a full bath upstairs and a 3/4 on the first floor

[A.Fox]

Forgive me for pulling this post out of the archives, but it seems to be an appropriate place to put this.

Not wanting to get too much into my personal life in a public forum, but our relationship as it relates to our current home has always been a little contentious. After two years in our prior 1940s home which had a few relatively fixable issues such as a leaking basement, poor gutter design, and trouble heating and cooling the extremities of the house, my partner really wanted to live in a new house. The trouble is that we couldn't at that moment afford a new construction house, and the newish houses we could afford were in places I didn't want to live - soulless fringe suburbs in subdivisions of rubber stamped plastic houses. My partner really likes old houses, we like to look at them, tour them, dream about them, but he has never been on board with the maintenance factor (he won't believe me that a custom home build has about as much of a stress factor as maintenance and remodel projects in an old house, nor that new houses have maintenance needs too, but that is another topic).

So after a lengthy home search we settled on what we thought was our compromise 1925 house. It had the features, design, and enough modern conveniences and layout for him, and the location and character for me. And the previous owner had spent years working on it and renovating it, so we thought it would be relatively turn key. Even once we saw it in person and saw that it needed a new garage roof, masonry and chimney repairs and cosmetic upgrades it didn't seem too daunting.

But I don't think either of us were ready for the actual process, particularly my partner. We weren't ready for difficult contractors, subpar work, work on one project damaging work that was just completed, cost overruns, roof leaks, recurring leaks, etc, and this was just in trying the maintain and repair the house in it's current condition, not to take on extensive remodeling. The list of things keeps piling up, and each one gets my partner closer to wanting to sell the house and get out. I'm never pushed so far, but it does become frustrating. This is part due to me having a strong connection to the house, it's history, and it's identity. He doesn't have the same affinity, nor has he with any house..

I've argued that our mortgage is nearly half of what we would have with a new house, and for that we have quality finishes that we would never have in a new house of even that price. Plus I've kept us moving saying that the house has a lot of deferred maintenance and some poor prior work, that things will get better once we get through the major issues, but I do wonder if that is really the case. It does seem like every month or so we have a new "crisis" to attend to.

The latest issues have been the recurring roof leaks, the commercial grade kitchen freezer that keeps having parts fail, and we have spent 1/4 of what it would cost to replace our black marble floors in trying to restore and maintain their finish and they seem to be a lost cause.

What has everyone else experienced? Is there a leveling out period after you have touched enough of the problems? Any advice based on previous experience working with relationships that aren't always on the same page when it comes to old houses? Any other advice in this situation?

[Willa]

But I don't think either of us were ready for the actual process, particularly my partner. We weren't ready for difficult contractors, subpar work, work on one project damaging work that was just completed, cost overruns, roof leaks, recurring leaks, etc, and this was just in trying the maintain and repair the house in it's current condition, not to take on extensive remodeling. The list of things keeps piling up, and each one gets my partner closer to wanting to sell the house and get out. I'm never pushed so far, but it does become frustrating. This is part due to me having a strong connection to the house, it's history, and it's identity. He doesn't have the same affinity, nor has he with any house..

I've argued that our mortgage is nearly half of what we would have with a new house, and for that we have quality finishes that we would never have in a new house of even that price. Plus I've kept us moving saying that the house has a lot of deferred maintenance and some poor prior work, that things will get better once we get through the major issues, but I do wonder if that is really the case. It does seem like every month or so we have a new "crisis" to attend to.

The latest issues have been the recurring roof leaks, the commercial grade kitchen freezer that keeps having parts fail, and we have spent 1/4 of what it would cost to replace our black marble floors in trying to restore and maintain their finish and they seem to be a lost cause.

What has everyone else experienced? Is there a leveling out period after you have touched enough of the problems? Any advice based on previous experience working with relationships that aren't always on the same page when it comes to old houses? Any other advice in this situation?

Whew - okay. I owned an 1870's house with my ex - who was not my ex then. We knew from the outset that the house suffered from a lot of deferred maintenance and cosmetic issues. While we made an equal downpayment on the house, he had a much higher income, and construction and renovation skills that I did not have. Neither of us had owned a house before.

A big area of friction was that he was impatient and unwilling to teach me how to do things, and was generally an unpleasant person to attempt to work WITH. He dealt with most of the contractors - which he made the final decisions about (some stupid decisions I might add). I did all the prepping and painting, sourcing, and other miscellaneous tasks that did not involve a super experienced skill set. What gradually evolved was a pattern that while he had the resources - and a flexible work schedule to complete house projects that he started - what actually happened was a dynamic of control, holding out, and delay. When the relationship ended, I was living in a house that had several rooms that were torn up and unfinished, whilch would have gravely affected the selling value. I did what I could to complete these rooms to get the house ready to sell. I had a friend with more skills who was a huge help, access to a really excellent tool library, and I worked really hard to learn skills like plaster repair. The house was good - the relationship was bad and irredeemable. My ex and I typically agreed about aesthetic and design ideas (good) but it was impossible for him to see my contributions to the house repairs/improvements as being worth the same conceptual dollar value as HIS work. You should have seen his court affidavit - it was really something. While it is true he had done some major work, it was also true that I spent many, many, many more hours fixing the house, and things that improved the overall resale value like gardening, the completion of his unfinished repairs and fresh paint.

I bought a late 1800's house by myself, less than half the size of my previous house, in a low market area. I have done most of the repairs myself, and hired an electrician, plumbers and carpenters as needed. On one hand the responsibility was now only on my shoulders - so I had to educate myself about the work that needed doing, sift out the sketchy contractors, etc. BUT - the work that I was doing was occurring on my timeline, so there wasn't the friction of being frustrated by a spouse/partner's resistance. This is not to say the experience has not been frustrating or demoralizing at times. It really has had some moments of angst and dismay. Unhappy surprises are par for the course.

Even working by myself (or waiting on contractors with absurd delays/excuses) can feel hopeless, ridiculous. I think any homeowner has periods feeling like they have made a terrible mistake, or a series of them. BUT : when I consider the other choices, which were things like staying in a crummy expensive apartment, in a super tight market, in a city I no longer wanted to live in, or buying a small new condo that I would loathe, or any of the other houses I looked at, I still come back to the idea that of all the possibilities - at that time - I still made the best one I could. I still look at the real estate listings and I really haven't seen a house that I would have liked better, with all the features I wanted.

A person with any fixer upper has to pick their battles. Some are critical - ie you must fix that leaking pipe ASAP - others can be put on a back burner until there is a better time (ie dig up the yard to plant a nicer flower garden). This goes for trying to work with a spouse or partner, too.

In retrospect I can see a bunch of red flags about why that relationship was doomed. I was trying to work WITH a person who was only able to take the position that he was on top and all others were below. There was no possibility of equality or true cooperation or mutual appreciation. I appreciated his work - he did not appreciate mine.

It is also worth mentioning that dealing with a house in the midst of repairs - even if it is just a single room - can be incredibly stressful. I am finishing up one of the last interior things on my list - fixing the plaster in a 4 x 4' closet, to get ready to paint it and set it up properly. Of course this means that the previous contents that had been stored in this dysfunctional closet are now displaced into that bedroom, which then displaced some bedroom contents into other rooms and it just feels like a stressful mess.I'll be really happy to get that organized again, but I have to work through all the internal fussing to just get the darn thing DONE.

Also : work on one room or one area at a time from start to finish if you can. As someone who suffered through having the living room, kitchen, dining room and bedroom we were sleeping in torn up at the same time: DO NOT DO THIS. It will make you feel more nuts than you need to.

[Gothichome]

AFox, disagreements are bound to happen, upper management and I have often been at odds over conceptual visions about what we want our home to be or look like. It often takes comprise, in the end as long as every one is happy that’s all that really matters.
As far as what appears to be an endless list of issues to be dealt with all at the same time, do what absolutely has to get done to secure the home from the elements or major structural issues. Once those are done you are free to prioritize your desires and needs and work on those at your leisure. Our old homes have been around for a long time, they are patient.
As soon as you impose a deadline it becomes work, and that is no fun at all.

[1918ColonialRevival]

As soon as you impose a deadline it becomes work, and that is no fun at all.

This x100.

Those of us who have lived with old houses can tell you it's not a sprint, it's a marathon. You have to pace yourself accordingly.

There's one thing I always tell people who have recently bought an old house. Unless there is emergency work that needs to be done, as in a leaking roof or structural defect that if not addressed immediately will result in more damage, you should live with the house as-is for at least six months and get to know it. This will help you prioritize what needs to be done and help formulate a logical plan and order for attacking various projects. That way you're not discovering new problems along the way and having to go back and undo work you've already done. That can be frustrating, not to mention expensive, and can result in quick burnout.

And whatever you do, keep emotions in check. It's easy to feel like you're drowning and give into it. In my case, in addition to never having enough money or time, I have several physical ailments that hold me back from time to time, to include Crohn's disease, three slipped discs in my spine, arthritis, and gout. I could easily let myself get depressed over all of it, but I always try to make the best of the situation and play the hand I'm dealt. If I let myself get down or frustrated, I'm letting the other factors win. I have too much of a need for control for that to happen.

[mjt]

+1 on deadlines - they can be useful as a mechanism to focus things. But you need to have only one deadline at a time. And only one project at a time.

Totally agree on prioritizing weather-tight and/or immediate structural issues and living with everything else for a while. Note that there can be structural issues that don't need to be addressed immediately. Your house has had them forever and it's not going to fall down in the next 6 months. Understanding which ones are in which category is key.

We've been in our house for more than 10 years and are not "done" yet. We knew it was going to be a marathon. We often got "advice" from people who kept asking why we didn't do the kitchen first since we love to cook. And the answer is because we need to run plumbing, electrical, gas, etc to the 2nd and 3rd floors. It would have been stupid to do the kitchen only to later have to bust up the walls to run the mechanicals for the master bath, attic bath, and HVAC. Using that first 6-12 months of living in the house helps you understand the overall plan so you don't have new projects messing up previous ones.

None of this is to say there wasn't friction between She Who Must Be Obeyed and me or between us and the (sub-)contractor. Take a breath and a step back. Understand the big picture. One project at a time. Only proceed with a project when you are ready - time, money, expertise, emotionally, etc. Know your limits if you're doing it yourself. Manage expectations.

[phil]

Marriage usually ties people financially. when we bought , my wife wasn't into the house, and she wasn't helping. I was ok with her not working on the house but she sort of just stopped doing anything including cleaning or looking for work. she said she didn't want to have kids. I tried hiring some stuff out but quickly got frustrated with that. She had envisioned teams of contractors like on the home reno shows. I pictured myssef doing most of it. I tried resolving it with counseling but she wasn't into cooperating. I worked tirelessly to try to get the house in better shape.
Eventually we decided to separate and we just went to a lawyer and split everything 50/50 It wasn't the perfect situation, some bitterness because the money was mostly my life savings. we decided that a court battle was not necessary or helpful.
I hung in there , I bought her share and took on a huge mortgage. the house doubled in value over 10 years. I continued working on it and had a few relationships . Now I feel happy and I am with someone that pulls the same direction I do. I'm much happier now , too old for kids but so things go.
sometimes what happens is two people get together and find they have different interests. some have long lasting relationships that aren't happy. It's give and take and the house is just a situation you face, a challenge for your relationship and at the same time , a financial investment.
perhaps what could work is to have some time together, maybe take a holiday or even book a hotel together and have time together away from the house. put your feelings on the table, try to save your love through an agreement of your plan. a counselor
might help if you are both on board with sorting it out. You might both pass this test if you can really listen and give and take and come to an agreement of the financial part. squabbling is common but doesn't resolve much if you are both trying to sell each other on your individual plan. If a sewer blockage or something causes stress , dont make that part of your decision making. You both deserve someone who is nice to you and who acknowledges your dreams and aspirations. approach it with time to think, someone else might help schedule topics to keep it on topic. If conversations turn sour give time to calm and discuss more when you are both calm. . you might be able to list wants and needs. focus on the positive aspects and the things that made you both decide to be together. I think you both have to discuss what you really need and provide each other safety from things like litigation. Some couples keep finances separate, that's a personal decision. neither can exist in a healthy relationship if you feel financially threatened. You can help each other to give love a chance. you wont accomplish that if you are stuck with your own feelings. It's not something to argue your way through. discuss the future, If you can both listen to the other and really try to see if you are able to fulfill the important stuff you might find you have lots of reasons to love one another. If you do , what house or car you choose is small stuff. a lot of kitchen renos result in divorce but it isn't really the reno, it's more about how you work together. I think a lot of couples who have lasted the test of time got there because they deeply care about each other's feelings and have the ability to discuss them with an open mind and a desire to find common ground. Try to come to agreement on the small stuff like which house you choose together. Give each other the floor and listen, You might just find that sorting out the stuff in your mind with someone who really cares and who is not in a position of threat, then you may be able to give a little. walking on eggshells is for the birds. Hidden feelings fester. Don't rush it. feelings also change and sometimes it is hard to admit to yourself about what your true feelings and fears are. calm emotions with time. You both deserve to have some healthy discussion and to try to find a positive way forward that is free of insults threats or other forms of emotional torture. This might be you both testing each other a little. I think you can survive it and come out more true to each other with lots of emotional support from one another. we all have bad days so dont let any certain conversation govern your path but take time to allow the true feelings to come through. Its ok to have different wants you dont want to be married to yourself, so embrace your differences. some couples share all the little things like work laundry shopping housekeeping, yard maintenance and some couples find they like certain things and not others. all that matters is that you are both happy and not feeling used or taken advantage of. If flipping a house and rolling into a different direction is helpful then do it. If you feel you really want this house then he's a part of that and so are his emotions. perhaps you can find one that satisfies you both or maybe he doesn't really care about the house. It sounds a lot like the situation we were in except in your case the male and female roles are reversed. The question of weather we loved each other wasn't really even part of it. Maybe for us , letting go was a way of resolving our differences but none of it was easy. I do think that despite the differences we ended up with with respect to the financial aspect I got the short end of the stick but paying lawyers to fight each other would have been even more hurtful and expensive for both of us. maybe one option os to take the financial aspect off the table, relieve those pressures and see if it works as a business arrangement? what if you were to separate finances, then would you still want o be together as a financially separate married couple? Perhaps he could invest in a condo or something while you put your half in with a young investor. maybe a younger person who wanted to get into the market could go halfers with you and work like crazy on it with an agreement to put it on the market in 5 years? here it is really hard for a lot of younger people to get in with the least expensive houses at 1 million.. so this sort of arrangement could make sense as a stepping stone. You can have a working relationship without love being involved. perhaps with no financial ties you'd find you want to be together for reasons other than depending on one another financially?

Phil

[A.Fox]

Sorry it's taken so long to respond, it's been a busy couple weeks. Thank you for all of the thoughts and personal stories. I have read all of them even if I haven't had time to write anything.

The part about schedule and deadlines seems to be right on point and has been a big sticking point for us. Funding has been another. He wants everything to be done as fast as possible and has the time to deal with contractors, but I have the greater technical knowledge and if there is something that we DIY, I'm the one doing it. But I also have a busy and stressful work schedule. The result is when I take on projects they take weeks or months to complete which drives him nuts.

We also are equal in our house payments, but can't be equal in our renovation payments. He ends up bearing the greater costs, though I chip in when I can. But when things go wrong, it's seen as his money going down the drain.

I'm not in to making this a lifetime project (at least the first go around - I understand that there will always be things to fix or to do better), but I also think it would be great if the push to get things done and overall expectations could be relaxed as long as we keep moving in the right direction. Because I would love that we could have time to live too.