Craftsman paint scheme dilemma

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JRC
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Re: Craftsman paint scheme dilemma

Post by JRC »

eclecticcottage wrote:BTW I am open to suggestions on the siding, window trim and brackets but I am stuck with white overhangs and facia so keep that in mind. Roof will likely be charcoal gray (black).

What I'm suggesting, if possible, is that you only paint the siding the tan/beige, similar to the example I shared, and leave everything else white. I know that, in the example, their trim and overhangs were a light cream, and not white. But, I think white could still work as a trim color. Then, if you still wanted to highlight the brackets, you could choose another accent color for them. Again, just my 2 cents.

JRC
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Re: Craftsman paint scheme dilemma

Post by JRC »

Oh, and I agree with Kashka-Kat that even with its quirks, (like the asymmetrical window by the fireplace) it is a very handsome and solid house. With just a little paint and polish, it could really shine.

eclecticcottage
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Re: Craftsman paint scheme dilemma

Post by eclecticcottage »

I do agree on a personal level about the windows. I kind of wish two of them were matches for some ugly older replacement in my own house-I'd figure out how to use them! However, I've been watching this market for a while, and truly, "new windows" is a big selling feature. While no two houses are alike and there are a lot of variables, for the most part, "updated" (new windows, roof, furnace) homes sell faster and for more than "old" (more original) ones. Nice woodwork, original built ins, those are great. Original windows, wood siding, not so great. It's just a fact of life where heating can be half the year. People just see what they've been sold and I don't have the cushion to wait on the ones that don't (incorrectly) think wood windows are a lot of work and will lose heat like a sieve. I might have considered giving it a try anyway if I was able to repoint and reglaze the existing windows (I have 22 of them that all need it) but I am really not that great at it (I have done it) and I don't have the time to try. It would probably cost more to have it done (if I could actually find someone to do it) than doing the windows.

I will try p/s with the cream or beige siding. I can leave what is there or reside. I don't want to make something too "unique", but all that white is just awful to me. I could also just do the trim and leave the brackets and siding alone.

I am glad that everyone else sees a great little (ok, big to me) house! I am counting down to closing. I think I have my main contractor nailed down-older gentleman that's been doing this a long time, has good reviews and knows his way around an older house. I do still need to dig up someone for the drywall unless myself and a friend do it. In that case we'd have to go over the existing plaster. The photos make it look better than it is, it's really in tough shape. I have a couple more names to call before I decide on that. I already have my HVAC guy on "standby" so he can some out and turn things back on and make sure everything is safe and functional-it's a newer system but with an REO you never know-nothing is on so it's a gamble on HVAC, electric, plumbing-the whole ball of wax.

I still think it will be a winner though, it's a really great house. But I may be biased lol.

CS in Low Hud
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Re: Craftsman paint scheme dilemma

Post by CS in Low Hud »

Looks like a great house to me! I have a Dutch Colonial from the same era, with an interior that was obviously ordered right from the Craftsman style pages of the catalogues when they were building it. So it's a mix.

Good for you for looking to stop the "Open Concept" nonsense. That's great. We all here, typically, would also argue for keeping and restoring the existing wooden windows and adding good storms - that actually provides better efficiency then new vinyl, looks nicer, and shouldn't cost you more. But I do understand the need to pick your battles.

Regarding your bathroom sinks. I would also advocate for keeping those, (and the tub, of course). You mention the house has lost many of the interior details, so it does not make sense to me to loose another. And those sinks are great! A simple re glazing and a new faucet will make that bath a really charming selling point. A previous poster suggested a single combo faucet through one hole and a soap dispenser in the other. That's a great solution. You could also install an "adjustable bridge faucet". Those are a period-appropriate solution to the two-faucet conundrum. Here is the one I installed in my powder-room:
Image
Either of those solutions will be less expensive than a new sink, and (like the windows) look nicer.

Regarding paint, if you are going with a Craftsman palette, then earth tones are your friend. Typically, in a two-color situation the lower floor would be darker then the gables. You have dark red brick on the lower floor, so perhaps a mustard, or a green, or a rust that is just a shade or two lighter for the gables and trim. Just a thought.

Good luck - the house is lucky to have found a buyer who cares enough to ask these questions!

Chris

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Lily left the valley
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Re: Craftsman paint scheme dilemma

Post by Lily left the valley »

I found the listing online via GIS, and I'm wondering if this was a MIL or illegal apartment at some point, which didn't help matters. My guess, given the styling of both kitchens, is that although it is plywood, it's still of the time, and thus better than putting in modern builder grade chipboard based veneered cabinetry. I would try to use some of what is upstairs to help the reno downstairs if you can't find something at your local habitat reno store instead if you're going to keep the nicer ones painted anyway--just paint them to match, swap pulls too.

Now where safety is a concern, like the faucets, that's a different issue. Sinks can be re-enameled and modernized as JRC and CS suggested. I know you don't like the open look beneath, but others do. It may also be cheaper to re-enamel and find the towel railings that are appropriate to such styles than an entirely new sink + cabinet. You could possibly do a beadboard style undersink cabinet, scoring the beadboard to wrap to fit the curve if you have the skill. You'll have to go with one smaller model anyhoo, because of how tight the egress seems from the door in the half. It might be worth pricing out options before you dismiss those suggestions.

I'd recommend wearing a mask when working on some of those floors--could be asbestos tiles which from my understanding may also have asbestos in the glue. Most flippers poly sheet and plywood over them before adding new flooring, which can be a pain dealing with how it offsets room change rises, trim, cabinets toekicks, doors (and thus why trim starts to vanish because they mauled it during removal).

It is odd to not have the mirror window on the other side of the fireplace, but it may have been later removed for whatever reason. I can't see evidence of such on the brick outside from the pics, though.

Regarding the lack of built ins, it's a '28 build so the original owners may have had all their older cabinetry/wardrobes, so they thought it impractical to replace what they already had. It's also possible that whomever tried to upgrade the furnace ducts to current code HVAC ripped out some. There could have been wood boring insect damage, or the cabinetry may have been asbestos--"fireproof" asbestos fiberboard built in cabinetry was also a thing back then, which I only found out about recently during my research about craftsman homes.

What is in the basement that looks like either wood storms or possibly the original windows that were removed? I can't quite tell because they're on the far side of the furnace.

I understand your frustration with which direction to go for windows, as well as your view that if you don't replace one or the other, it's half done work. For us, as we looked at homes this year, we outright dismissed all homes that had just solely vinyl, and didn't immediately dismiss (even bid on) a mix of vinyl and wood. It drove us crazy to see all the old homes for sale here where the listing boasted of upgraded windows. I know we are not average in that respect, but I want to mention it for the sake of the discussion at hand.

I know your old house loving side is fighting your knowledge as a realtor. However...if folks like us do not educate the buyers and the public in general, they will always believe what marketing folks tell them. Educate the buyers about the long term benefits of original wood windows, as opposed to the cost of having to replace vinyl within a relatively short time span, for instance, which means they often don't reap the promoted benefits before they have to be replaced. (Have copies of one of the many articles written on such in your buyer handouts. Here's just one: http://www.parks.ca.gov/pages/1054/files/heritage%20canada.pdf) I know there are many buyers who are blinded by marketing, but we don't have to accept that fact--sometimes minds can be changed.

You may not be aware, but there's even talk in some building circles now about how vinyl windows and siding may not too far in the near future be considered on the same tier as asbestos products given the off gassing, particularly during fires. There's also the issue of how soon the double glazing fails and lack of ability to be repaired even on mid priced ranged windows. I just noticed re-reading the thread that Kashka-Kat hit on this too.

If I were you, I'd spend the money you were going to spend on replacement windows on a better (period look) front door and screen/storm--and fixing the ones you say need it.

It's clear that exterior work in particular is a race against the clock weather wise given the lakes area it is in, which is affecting some choices before the home goes back to market.

I would recommend not painting anything black, and instead use a deep pine/hunter or even a navy based grey to contrast with the warm brick. You could also use a third paint color matching your brick one some details, depending on how much there is to work with. This would give you the white, warm brick and then your wood color for three total. An off white would be better, but you've already noted why you are compromising there. That way if the future owners want to work with that in their scheme when they repaint the home, that will be less they will most likely have to do. For the green or navy gray accent you choose, I would also use it on the column details.

I think part of what is bugging you for the exterior is the lack of trim on all that trellis--both for the vertical plants and in the basement windows. The open ended look gives an unfinished appearance It also doesn't help that where they inserted the trellis over plywood, they didn't paint the ply darker for contrast.

This also goes for hidden/missing trim on windows--when the aluminum storms were added--and the doors. I see you're missing some (even for brick faced buildings: source: http://www.oldhouseguy.com/window-designs/ ).

I know darker roofing is preferred in that area, so have you considered the nice dark greens available? You may have been thinking of the charcoal given the black details, but it's just too stark with the white. Too stark for the period, really.

Overall, I honestly don't think you should ever call yourself a flipper. You've obviously put a lot of thought into being as true as you can without the usual flip cheats. If I were you, I would promote this as a thoughtfully restored home.
--Proud member of the Industrious Cheapskate Club
--Currently pondering ways to encourage thoughtful restovation and discourage mindless renovation.

eclecticcottage
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Re: Craftsman paint scheme dilemma

Post by eclecticcottage »

Thanks all! I have looked at the bridge faucets, but they are more expensive than buying vintage pedestals on craigslist. I seem to recall at least one sink was chipped and rusted, but I didn't take pictures of that. I need to get in to remeasure the kitchen so I'm going to recheck some details that are escaping me right now-that being one of them. If I do remove them, they will be resold not tossed.

The windows-if I had someone that could properly repair them all (most need some reglazing at least) I would consider keeping them. I just don't-and I don't think I could find someone to do it in the time I need it done. I originally planned to do that, then once all the plaster was done, put some gaskets on the outlets and do some sealing and have a NYSERDA home energy assessment done to prove they weren't the evil they are thought to be. But this may be one battle that is lost.

I don't think it's had details like built ins removed unless it was a LONG time ago, just that they aren't there. I don't think this was a kit home, rather a built per spec that just didn't have them.

I agree on those floors. That might be covered in laminate. I chose a beautiful piano finish that has a slight cherry color-much like I've seen in many original homes of this era (although the living room was lighter, the rest are darker). I will leave the originals there-and floating laminate won't damage them so if someone wants a project later, it will be there.

The upstairs kitchen doesn't have much in the way of usable cabinets with the built in stove. I have NO idea what was up with that. it's in one of three upstairs bedrooms, and the only full bath is upstairs. that kitchen is in a room that isn't connected to another room either. It's just going to be a mystery I think. I did think about using it, but then trying to get uppers (the only upper is actually built into the roof line so it's not flat on top)-I will probably be better off with a nice set of shaker style for the time and effort of saving the plywood ones. Again, the cabinets and stove will be resold since almost no one uses a canning kitchen anymore-otherwise I'd put them in the basement. Whatever I do (buy new or used via CL) they will be wood cabinets-it might be plywood with solid fronts, but I am NOT using particle board. I want something that actually has some build quality-and those typically do not. I have a budget, so it might be unfinished ones I have to paint from Mr Seconds, but they will be wood.

I found (what I believe to be )a period correct door that's 6" too wide for $30 Easily a craftsman style look at least, and solid wood. Too much to cut it down to fit. I'm still hunting though. I have a period correct screen door (the kind with separate screens and glass) that is missing the glass insert. I'm pondering using it. I "collect" old doors-if I see one being thrown out, it will come home with me. I am down to two 1950's era exterior doors and the one screen door though-I sell them when the collection takes up too much space and DH gets antsy lol.

I think I'll play with some color schemes in p/s on my lunch. I'm not stuck on black-just started that way as a reverse of what's there.

Interior colors will be warm creams, medium blue gray, sagey green gray, maybe a warm light gray. White trim because I KNOW I don't have the time to strip all that painted trim-every INCH is painted! not sure on the doors-there are a lot of holes for extra locks, etc-hopefully I can repair them and hide the repairs enough that they can stay unpainted.

I need to find the right balance with this house so it sells fast for a reasonable profit. Basically, I will keep and restore as much as possible while making it something the majority of buyers today feel like they can live in daily. I can't give in to my old house loving side so much that I blow my budget or narrow my potential buyers pool too much. There are two other older brick homes I've had an eye on that are vacant. If I can get this one to work, I can make some inquires on those, and maybe get one or both-and do the same thing. I'm not doing a rehab addict thing (I like her...but...everytime she says that old subfloor that's now sanded and refinished is "like it was when it was built" I cringe), but I see a lot of older homes that can be repaired in a more sensitive way that can continue to be a solid family home for decades-and I want to do that.

I joke about livability-my own house is heated with wood (we JUST put in a furnace this year just in case), has period cabinets with no dishwasher, a 1950's match light stove and 1950's fridge that needs to be defrosted (the horror)-and the "closets" are built in cabinets in a 9x9 room. But the truth is, not a lot of people would be overly happy with that now. People are...lazier...than they used to be. So some things need to be accounted for in order to sell reasonably quick.

Ober51
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Re: Craftsman paint scheme dilemma

Post by Ober51 »

I understand the windows issue. I was lucky enough that neglect left me with ALL originals. My one suggestion, and take it for what it is worth, is to at least save the windows. Take them out carefully, put them in the attic or garage with a note of where each goes. A owner down the road will appreciate the thought.

eclecticcottage
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Re: Craftsman paint scheme dilemma

Post by eclecticcottage »

Oh, I will be saving the sashes. I don't know that I will leave them with the house, that might depend on the buyer. No matter what, the sashes, remaining storms, bath sinks if I don't keep them and the weird upstairs kitchen (see pic below) will be saved and sold. About all that's getting trashed is old carpet and some track lighting if it's not worth reselling-and anything junk I need to remove (like the bath flooring). If I can find a good (old) replacement for the front door, I'll sell the ugly steel one-someone will want it.

weird upstairs kitchen in a bedroom
Image

because it's an REO the electric is off so I don't know if the stove works...but it's pretty cool.

eclecticcottage
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Re: Craftsman paint scheme dilemma

Post by eclecticcottage »

Oh, here's the half bath too

Image

eclecticcottage
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Re: Craftsman paint scheme dilemma

Post by eclecticcottage »

so getting off topic a bit-but-you'll see in the half bath it's pvc or cpvc piping on the sink. IF I keep them (IF)-how the heck do I make that not look like PVC? It's not period, it's just ugly.

I'm doing white bead board up to the trim and this floor

Image

or all white with a darker grout

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