Arts & Crafts chest of drawers rehab - how to??-

[Kashka-Kat]

Got a fantastic Arts and Crafts dresser for free!! In pretty good shape, original everything, not futzed with or refinished before. Its that early 1900s super dark fumed oak look which I love .... but on the other hand.... its quarter sawn and I would love to have the flecks and rays be more emphasized.... so choosing a finish is going to be difficult. Actually I think I may be able to just dissolve shellac w/ steel wool and clean it up?

Oh wait - Im getting ahead of myself. As I was moving it and getting it up the stairs it just began to disintegrate - joints just gave out. The front frame (which holds the drawers) is all in one piece and pretty secure, as is the back piece, but every thing else came apart esp after I unscrewed the top. Whats odd is there is very little glue in the joints, just some at the tip of some of the tenons and deep inside the mortise. Arent we supposed to glue all sides of the tenon

Does the gluing happen before or after the finish is dealt with?

I did re glue a dresser recently that came together pretty well, but I think I want to get some in depth guidance before proceeding with this one. For example - which joints should get glued? The dresser I did already I glued every single joint but I think somehwere I read that some were set in without glue, to allow for movement of the wood.

Any books by a master craftsman y'all can recommend?

I tried taking pics but all I got was some big black blobby shapes.... the fact its in pieces doesnt make photographing easy.

[awomanwithahammer]

This looks like a job for--er, a question for Al, the Furniture Maker.

[Gothichome]

Kashka,,the tenons should be glued on all sides it provided the frame for the larger panels. The side panels should float in the slots, is the back one piece or several boards. It will provide stiffness to keep everything square.
The glue for the job is hide glue of course. I use ‘Old Brown Glue’ I get it from Lee Valley up here in Canada. But is available on line. For your one project get the small bottle. I bought the large and have used very little of it. I little bit goes quite far.

[1918ColonialRevival]

+1 to everything Gothichome said.

Bottled hide glue only has a shelf life of a few months to a maximum of about a year depending on storage conditions, so don't get more than you need. I usually make my own from dry hide glue crystals and water in a glue pot - that way I can control how thin or thick the mixture is depending on the application.

[Kashka-Kat]

Thx - good info. Ive had good luck in past with Titebond hide glue - bought from the local Woodcraft where things don't sit on shelf forever and I can get expiration date far into the future. Nothing worse than glue that wont harden and having to remove it and start over - been there!

The back side is 4 panels held together in the framing and its pretty much intact and solid, as is the front side. Its the two sides which are in pieces - 3 vertical panels + frame pieces. Would you put together sides first, or do all glue in one shot? there are these pieces that hold up the drawers too + the top is off.

Will do a trial (dry) run first - thinking it might work best to lie it on its back?

Im terrified that the pieces might start warping now that its apart -is this something to worry about? Its not humid yetbut will be soon. I had that happen a little to the previous dresser but it may have had more to do with my washing the insides of the drawers and other dirty pieces with bleach& hot water . They were nice and clean however!

Should I remove finish prior to reassembling or after? It will just be shellac again + possible stain.

[phil]

don;t go removing the finish on antiques uunless they are really far gone. especially with fumed oak, and don't go wiping stains on either! no quicker way to wreck an antique.

try a mix of 1:1:1 turpentine, clear danish oil or linseed oil, and vinegar.
shake it as you use it, the vinegar will separate, that's fine just shake it when you use it.

wipe it on , over the existing finish, then rub it all off with dry cloths, repeat a few times if necessary. If it has lacquer or shellac on it already then the solution wont; soak in much and will rub off. where there is wear and little scratches it will build a shine only there and that will make most antiques look presentable.
If you wan to re-fume it then you need strong ammonia some have been successful building tents and putting their oak in there with some commercial ammonia.

most old furniture has hide glue and the glue blocks are triangular shaped. these are applied by doing a rub joint. clean the pieces, apply the glue press them in place , rub a little but dont; squeeze it all out and then leave it. that''s how they were done.
clean any joints that need re gluing, glue won't stick to glue or fill gaps.
yes panels are made to float to allow expansion and contraction as humidity changes.

a total restoration may involve complete disassembly cleaning of all the glue out of joints and regluing. or in some cases you may want to resort to squirting in a more modern permanent glue. It depends on value of the piece.

if it has a fumed finish try not to mess with the finish. protect it with masking tape if you disassemble. You said yourself it "hasn't been mucked with" keep it as such unless you really need to. others will have the same opinion. go wiping on minwax and stain and stuff like that you might as well toss it as far as other collectors are concerned, you'll just make them feel angry inside. antiques love to wait.

is the finish shellac or is it lacquer? both finishes can be restored but you need to know that first. both shellac and lacquer redissolve. Its possible but there are some techniques involved. best if you can avoid removing the finish , it will be hard to get it back to that original fumed oak look that you admire if you do.

on an antique it is completely normal and correct for the finish to be a bit yellowed from age. that isn't detracting. some careful cleaning and light restoration is often better than trying to strip and refinish. making it showroom isn't restoration, it is how many are ruined. even if you did strip and refinish you'd want to mimic the look of the finish being old so you'd combine stuff to make the new finish yellowed otherwise it would just look like an amateurish restoration. There are too many of those already.
if you have high humidity you may see some blush, is that a problem with this piece?

dont; use stain , go put it where you wont be tempted. If it is laquer and even if you strip and want to darken it use toners, they won;t do permanent damage, stain will. minwax is garbage. If you botch a toner finish you wipe it off and go again.

https://www.mohawk-finishing.com/produc ... sic-toner/

you might try american walnut dont use it straight just add a bit of toner to your lacquer and then spray it on , If you don't have a spray gun then just do a fine mist between clear coats. If you use toners do it in stages not all in one go. lay down some coats of clear before using toners.

if you do have to restore it , dont; scrape it with anything, no plastic no steel wool , keep the fuming intact. I think I'd rather try to restore the finish, the fumed oak is under there, if you dont; remove the finish its probably best. Its also possible to amalgumate a new finish because lacquer will blend with old lacquer. If you strip right down into your original surface and your fumed finish it'll be hard to get it looking right again.

[Kashka-Kat]

Thanks Phil (and all) I think I misspoke when I said it "looked" fumed - I meant very dark. Since the insides of the drawer fronts are not finished and not dark (looks like plain raw wood) I assume no actual fuming was done? I will try to post some pics

I did experiment with some antique finish "restorer" and I think the reamalgamation is the way to go. Yeah I know what you mean about not going too far with removal (and then chasing after trying to get it to look nice again) Have made that mistake before.... Would you do this before or after the regluing? Im inclined to do it before but have to be very careful about not getting it in the mortise or on the tenon so it doesn't interfere with the glue.

Yeah! Anyone know good source of drawer pulls either original antique or reproduction ? Needs to be just the right simple thing - either bronze or iron. Its not the big chunky type of mission or A&C so some of those really hefty rustic-looking ones that look like they came from a medieval castle don't look right.

[awomanwithahammer]

Well, there's these:
https://knoxville.craigslist.org/mat/d/ ... 21702.html

[phil]

here's a product called amalgumator from Mohawk
https://mohawk-finishing.com/products/w ... r-solvent/

same thing from Richelieu..
https://www.richelieu.com/ca/en/categor ... nt/1021140

if you try using the amalgumator and dont; like it you can always strip it. you can use paint stripper if you like, then use lacquer thinners.

to refinish you might use lacquer or you could do a sort of french polish by padding on shellac.

If it were me and wanted to disassemble I'd do that first. if the panels are coming apart you may do that first. make sure they are square. I'd actually check before you go taking it apart just in case it happens to not be square best to know before.

I'd put it on its feet during glue up. maybe on a table so you aren't on your hands and knees. If you have lots of clamps it helps, you could borrow some if you don't or maybe use some combination of strap clamps and bar clamps. If you re short on clamps then you can do it in sections. If you have a whole bunch of bar clamps you can use lots at once.

when doing glue up you can wipe off the ooze out. there are two schools of thought, one is that if you have some dribble and let it dry than you can use a scraper rather than spreading glue down into cracks and crevasses and pores of the wood itself. . If you use wet towels sometimes you can drive your wet glue down into the grain, then it shows in your finishing if you have glue in the wood it will look ugly. others go wiping up carefully but that can spread it.. use tape to protect the finish and you can use cardboard or felt or whatever to prevent clamping marks. my dad was a furniture maker that learned when he was young. he worked for an Englishman and they did repairs but also a lot of fine reproductions of English antiques. this was back int he 40's and 50's. he became a carpenter later. over time he showed me to use the glue somewhat sparingly and not to go crazy with the wiping. woodwork wasn't a trade for me but I enjoy doing it. I also do a lot of work with Joiners so I'm always pestering them with my little questions. they know a lot about woodwork but I don't see them doing much antique refinishing work.

I'd leave the finishing until last and you can decide if you want to do a new finish or repair. I'd avoid a lot of scraping and rubbing just soft cloths and brushes, then you won't go marking the delicate woodwork under the finish.

a lot of that old quartersawn oak was fumed. so I wouldn't' be surprised if it is. whether to refinish or not is a personal decision.

I'd work with lacquer or shellac, your choice. best to stay with the original finish if you can. You can add toner to lacquer or you can use shellac in colors like amber etc. I would not use a clear finish. I like to make my Lacquer look like the color of a cup of coffee if I spray antiques. the toner is touchy, don't use too much. I just put a little in my lacquer then if I want it darker that can happen in 6 coats rather than one , it helps distribute it evenly. You can spray the toner right on top of spray lacquer then more lacquer and trap it between. where the problem comes is if it runs or pools or if you get splatter from the nozzle that stuff shows. with radios they often used a really heavy toner over the light woods , edges and trim are often a really dark brown. it isnt; paint though , paint looks wrong, they used toner. the difference is that you can actually still see wood grain. some try using brown paint without really realizing it. Its not paint it is dark brown toner.

If you want to try french polishing you can. Doing it correctly is an art, Its one of those lost trades.. the difficulty comes when you get near corners , I think flats are not as hard. you might watch some videos to see if it is something you'd like to try.

I think if you stick with lacquer or shellac, if you dont; like the way it's going then break out the lacquer thinners, wash it off and go again.

I'd discourage paints, stain or any sort of poly, that doesn't belong.

during the glue up I'd want the finish there still, so it wont' soak into the wood. If you finish parts first you might damage the finish with the wood clamps.

doing the clamping, I'd put it on it's feet. make sure its sitting on something flat like particleboard. check corner to corner frequently, make sure all the legs are on the floor. You just don't want to clamp it up crooked.

its likely not the original finish but we could also note that linseed oil is also a nice furniture finish. If you like it you can mix your turpentine and linseed oil, rub it in , rub it off, keep doing that and you'll build a nice shine and it's fairly durable too. that sort of finish looks nice. I like using fine paper and rub the oil in with paper.

basically you might think of putting shellac or lacquer on top like with a brush or padding to be a over the wood finish. any finish above the grain blocks out the grain. if you really want to see down into the wood and see how things like the ribbon reflect the light from different angles and you use a below the surface finish then you are not blocking the beauty of the wood.. this is why french polishing and oil finishes look so brilliant and nice. , because you aren't blocking the beautiful wood with a product between it and your eye.

a lot of production made furniture was not finished in such manor because these techniques are time intensive. If I finish radios I try to stick to what was used in the factory. laquer. it dries fast. It was common. sometimes they used heavy toners so I try to mimic what it looked like. If I started from scratch and built something I'd probably go with the oil finish. I like using danish oil it dries a little faster. I just use the clear not the colors. If you rub in colored finishes it can drive the pigments into the cracks and crevasses and highlight them.

one thing I like about oil is that you dont; need a spray booth, dust is really not an issue. If you spray lacquer and you have a little dust you can work that out with some hand rubbing. Pros use spray booths.

there are techniques where you can strip to the wood and spray on dyes. there are some dyes that are used only on certain woods as they can react with the composition of the wood, they can pop the grain in interesting ways. That might be nice on some furniture but maybe not with oak. If you know how to use them they can work well but they aren't too common you can research it. what I really hate myself is when people start using things like paint or stains that hide the grain and make the piece look muddy.. some love to go smearing those cheap paint stains on like min-wax and they just hide the beauty of the grain underneath when they do that. the light needs to go through that finish twice before it hits your eye so you dont see the inner beauty of the wood itself. I love to see it shimmer and change as I walk by, to me this is the inner beauty of wood, why would I hide it? some woods really shimmer. I did some where I used some really knotty pieces of maple, it really shimmers like a hologram. good mahogany is like that cheap mahogany not so much.
oak had different qualities but the quartersawn oak stuff is nice.. oak can show some neat patterns in it's grain. Its nice for tables and things because it's very hard.

If you really have to you can go sanding into fresh wood and start from that. Id only do that if it's really badly damaged.

sometimes when you begin finishing pieces stuff jumps out, it might be some sanding marks or if you got glue trapped in the wood that shows. sometimes what I do is use danish oil first to pop the grain and seal it then look to see if there is stuff like that that I need to fix. these things can be hard to see with no finish applied. If you are using lacquer or shellac nothing to stop you from doing a real quick trial coat so you can see how the wood reacts , then fix any issues you don't like.

I think as long as you are having fun its hard to go wrong , I just get upset when I see people buy nice antiques and stain or paint or poly on them and things like that. I feel it's destructive.. we only have so many antiques and then there just aren't going to be more, they are at an all time low in price so you see a lot of it happening out there. those things aren't fun to fix.