Handsome Empire Sofa w/Original Upholstery

Furniture, furnishings and other items of antique interest
User avatar
Willa
Revered expert in almost everything
Posts: 1369
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:46 pm

Handsome Empire Sofa w/Original Upholstery

Post by Willa »

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details.html?adId=1398767681&requestSource=b

It's giving me some feelings.

It appears to have the original black horsehair upholstery. The gimp (braid that goes around the edges) looks like it needs reattachment or replacement, but the structure looks sound. It sure needed a good dusting though.

As Empire sofas go, this is strongly to my taste as it is not too ornate or curlicue. My bad cats would make short work of that 150 year old horsehair fabric - and I don't need a sofa. I am putting it out there for other admirers. Save it from chalkpaint and amateur upholstery doom !

$_59-1.JPG
$_59-1.JPG (79.38 KiB) Viewed 4033 times


$_59-2.JPG
$_59-2.JPG (54.19 KiB) Viewed 4033 times


$_59-3.JPG
$_59-3.JPG (71.19 KiB) Viewed 4033 times

User avatar
mjt
Shakes a cane at new house owners
Posts: 557
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:04 am
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Contact:

Re: Handsome Empire Sofa w/Original Upholstery

Post by mjt »

Wow, quite a piece!

User avatar
Manalto
Inventor of Knob and Tube
Posts: 2111
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 11:09 pm

Re: Handsome Empire Sofa w/Original Upholstery

Post by Manalto »

Thanks for sharing. It's a knockout. 10 feet long!

User avatar
Willa
Revered expert in almost everything
Posts: 1369
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:46 pm

Re: Handsome Empire Sofa w/Original Upholstery

Post by Willa »

Manalto wrote:10 feet long!


That might be measured in internet inches. A 10 foot long sofa of this type would be very unusual.

It does look longER, but I don't know about 10 feet long ?

I spent some time looking through my file of almost perfect antique sofas, and this one is the best. It has nice proportions without being crazy or clunky.

I also looked at where antique horsehair upholstery material could be purchased. There is one manufacturer in the UK and one in Germany. An upholstery blog (c. 2013 !)described the material as being sold for between $ 400.00 - 1000.00 per yard ! The manufacturers had no prices listed, but their project galleries were things like very high end restaurants, using it on wall panels, or on high end furniture restorations.

http://www.johnboydtextiles.co.uk/history.php

User avatar
Manalto
Inventor of Knob and Tube
Posts: 2111
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 11:09 pm

Re: Handsome Empire Sofa w/Original Upholstery

Post by Manalto »

I'm really weary of black clothes and monochrome everything, but this looks beautiful.

I priced mohair fabric for an old car I had years ago (in the 1930s it went into the most ordinary models) and the price was prohibitive. Natural fibers, especially the ones no longer commonly in production, are climbing in price. Sorry to say, eventually it will be polyester everything.

Online
User avatar
Gothichome
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4184
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:34 pm
Location: Chatham Ont

Re: Handsome Empire Sofa w/Original Upholstery

Post by Gothichome »

Willa, if it ten feet long it would have come out of a grander home than ours. It does look very nice a bit pricy though. If it was part of a parlour set, it would have been a rather large parlour. My thoughts, it may have been a peice of hall furniture.

User avatar
Willa
Revered expert in almost everything
Posts: 1369
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:46 pm

Re: Handsome Empire Sofa w/Original Upholstery

Post by Willa »

Manalto wrote:
I priced mohair fabric for an old car I had years ago (in the 1930s it went into the most ordinary models) and the price was prohibitive. Natural fibers, especially the ones no longer commonly in production, are climbing in price. Sorry to say, eventually it will be polyester everything.


Upholstery materials are their own special racket. Many are available to the trade only (ie you must be a designer or upholsterer of some status to purchase the better ones from the distributor) and the prices are just insane.

Like 100% silk peau de soie for garments (a heavy, almost satin-like material, used for things like bridal gowns) can cost about $ 35.00 per yd, if it is of Chinese origin, from a wholesaler. An identical peau de soie, from Italy can cost $ 100.00 or more, retail. To my eye/hand they look nearly identical. Polyester peau de soie costs about $ 10.00/yd.

Yet a synthetic upholstery material, that looks similar, of a similar weight/weave can be priced anywhere from $ 45.00/yd and up. A pure silk upholstery material can cost $ 150.00/yd to more than $ 500.00/yd, if there is a designer brand attached to it !

Many of the older materials (like mohair velvets) wear so much better than the newer synthetics. Same with regards to the construction of the sofas. Hardwood frames, hand tied springs and horsehair stuffing can last for decades until they need a tune - up - and can be reused. Meanwhile the sofa that is mostly foam, with a synthetic covering material starts to break down within a decade.

There are some upstart companies that are focussed on using organic and ethically sourced materials, with things like natural latex foam, or low VOC foam. They can't compete with the range of a larger corporation, though, and are only a niche market. I guess this is why there are only a couple of horsehair upholstery fabric manufacturers left, since their raw materials are now much scarcer than 130 years ago.

I have seen more than a couple of antique settees with original horsehair fabric be posted for sale - and unless they had water or mold damage many of them still looked great. Ikea would go out of business if their sofas lasted for 150 years !

User avatar
Willa
Revered expert in almost everything
Posts: 1369
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:46 pm

Re: Handsome Empire Sofa w/Original Upholstery

Post by Willa »

Gothichome wrote:Willa, if it ten feet long it would have come out of a grander home than ours. It does look very nice a bit pricy though. If it was part of a parlour set, it would have been a rather large parlour. My thoughts, it may have been a peice of hall furniture.


Yes, the seller has it posted for both $ 1000.00 and $ 950.00 CAN, both of which are somewhat high. It is a somewhat exceptional piece, but I think the market is pretty low for such an item right now. A different seller (Hamilton, ON) has a John Jelliff settee posted for sale for many months - dropping from $ 1600.00 CAN to now under $ 900.00 CAN. This is without the bonus decades of dust:

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-couch-futon/hamilton/reduced-circa-1865-john-jelliff-settee/1095802740?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

$_59-4.JPG
$_59-4.JPG (80.93 KiB) Viewed 3999 times


$_59-5.JPG
$_59-5.JPG (91.9 KiB) Viewed 3999 times


If my life (and house) was different, I wouldn't balk at paying $ 1000.00 CAN for the Empire sofa - assuming it was clean and complete, with no bad smells (the worst). Of course my tastes and sensibilities are in the minority.

Online
User avatar
Gothichome
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4184
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:34 pm
Location: Chatham Ont

Re: Handsome Empire Sofa w/Original Upholstery

Post by Gothichome »

Willa, I like grey one a lot better. This is our parlour couch.
Image
We paid $700 many years ago. As you are aware Victorian furniture is not ‘the thing’ these days. I bet the grey couch could be had for the same.

User avatar
Willa
Revered expert in almost everything
Posts: 1369
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:46 pm

Re: Handsome Empire Sofa w/Original Upholstery

Post by Willa »

Gothichome wrote:Willa, I like grey one a lot better.
We paid $700 many years ago. As you are aware Victorian furniture is not ‘the thing’ these days. I bet the grey couch could be had for the same.


That John Jelliff settee is pretty nice. BUT - the tufting on the upper part looks oddly wrinkled, like either the padding material (dacron or cotton) is breaking down or it got wet ?

Another misery is that accomplished upholsterers who actually appreciate antiques are getting scarcer - so finding one who will do right by the piece is another challenge and expense. The best value is an antique piece that is intact and useable - or has been professionally (and competently)upholstered in a material and color that is acceptable.

I wait for the bus by the local auction house, that displays new items in the window. Often I have more time than I expected to look at their recent lot. IMO, the scourge of modern upholstery is double piping. Previously the gimp (fancy scrolled braid edging) was tacked on, then glued on. Now all that seems to be used is the double piping, glue gunned on. For shame.

Post Reply