anyone know about old violins?

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phil
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anyone know about old violins?

Post by phil »

I picked thisup a few years back at an estate auction. I picked it up during the preview and thought oh that's nice I like it , but I have no idea what its worth.. Hey! I though.. I bet no one else here does either.. so I kept my hand up longest and came home with the thing. Unless I suddenly take up music I should sell it so right now I'm thinking of getting it appraised or even just getting a violin instructor to have a look and try to give me a ballpark. Its really difficult for me to tell if this is a very valuable one but from all I can tell , its old, the strings are such that it hasn't been played in a long time. no cracks or repairs. I believe it is a full size violin. it is very light in weight. It is hand made and really quite beautiful. Ive chosen not to try restoration and think it's best to consult someone. I showed it to a guy who builds guitars and he said it appear well made by a craftsman but hewasnt' really a violin guy so still no idea on price..

I put it on craigslist without a price and had one guy who is kind of interested and he did give me the name of someone who restores them. they are both friends so I think I will go to the restorer and get his take on it and also I need a couple others who know more about this stuff to try to get some sort of price, otherwise I'm so in the dark I cant' really proceed.
I think Craigslist and ebay are both riddled with hopeful people and crazy prices and sure, some are worth tens of thousands.. Oh that would be so nice! ,,, but anyway.. what about this thing?
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Willa
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Re: anyone know about old violins?

Post by Willa »

Take it to an experienced appraiser that deals with antique string instruments.

Old and or/handmade doesn't always equal valuable. Better to have an experienced person have a look, then you can let it go for $ 25.00 or list it at auction for $ 10,000.00 depending on the value. That way YOU won't be wondering or speculating.

You might have had great luck, or have bought a student instrument, or grandpa's fiddle.

Listing on CL with no price will waste your time, between the people like me who won't even bother to inquire, or other speculating hopefuls, who will tire kick and lowball. How many "Stradivarius" violins have been on the Antiques Roadshow over the years, with about 0% of them being real ones ? I remember one episode where the violin was nearly worthless but one of the bows with was valuable.

Olson185
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Re: anyone know about old violins?

Post by Olson185 »

Phil, you don't mention anything about the label and that, by itself, will tell a lot. Labels are inside, visible via the F-slots.

Any "made in...", and a label in English, dates it after the McKinley Tariff Act of 1890. The label in my violin states manufacturer, country of origin, model #, and serial #.
~James

Fourth generation in a family of artists, engineers, architects, woodworkers, and metalworkers. Mine is a family of Viking craftsmen. What we can't create, we pillage, and there's nothing we can't create. But, sometimes, we pillage anyway.

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Jeepnstein
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Re: anyone know about old violins?

Post by Jeepnstein »

Some can be pretty expensive. Those tend to not be forgotten in a dusty case and sold at estate sales. Also make sure to have someone look at the bow. You would not believe what bows sell for in some cases.

It's not unheard of for a real gem to fall through the cracks so be a bit careful. I know a guy who bought a Pre-War Martin D-18 guitar for $1,200 a while back. The label had dried out and fell into the bottom of the guitar and got stuck, turns out it was the 12th D-18 ever made. The old lady who lived next door to us growing up tried to give me her deceased sons' 1938 Martin D-28 back when I was a kid. In both those cases we're talking guitars that are worth well into six figures.

In most cases you'll have to have the instrument up and running in proper playing condition to be able to sell it. Your repairman should be able to tip you off to the value. It looks fairly good so I'm going to guess you'll be into less than a hundred bucks for a setup. The bow needs attention as well. After someone actually plays the thing you'll know more about where it's going. Ever consider taking a few lessons?

phil
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Re: anyone know about old violins?

Post by phil »

thanks all , for the info. Ill take it to this appraiser/restorer and see where I get. there may be some sort of label but I couldn't make it out. Its pretty old and darkened and its dark in there;-) I just bought a teeny flashlight thing on sale it was actually an iphone attachment for making videos and was only 10 bucks. it's pretty bright so maybe it'll fit inside. I didn't want to attempt to clean any paper labels. It might have seen some overspray from stain, maybe an intentional cover-up or maybe just normal dust.
any idea what they would use to renew the finish? Tung oil? anyway Ill see what the restorer guy recommends, I'm sure he will give it a wipe down.

I'm OK if it's just grampa's old fiddle. I dont' know any history of it and the auction house always had multiple sources of sellers. Obviously it's been stuck away a long time. It looks well used and cared for but maybe not played in a long time. I'd get a kick out of seeing someone play it a little. Yes I have considered lessons but you couldn't find anyone greener.

I think it's going to playable with new strings and bow hair. a new made in china special is a couple hundred or so so I'm sure it's worth that even as a decoration. How much more is a complete mystery so it will be good to find out. Ill let you guys know the outcome. Yes the bow is nice and it has some ebony and mother of pearl. nickle or silver plate. It wasn't the cheapest piece of junk, but I'm aware of the Stradivarius name being misused very often, and yes that the bow could out-price the actual instrument.
here's a couple more pics. Ginger only has one word so she gives it her meow of approval ;-)
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Jeepnstein
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Re: anyone know about old violins?

Post by Jeepnstein »

DO NOT DO ANYTHING TO THE FINISH. What looks like dirt and crud to you is more like gold to a player more often than not. I know a guy who basically turned a good instrument into trash that way. And by good I mean in the couple thousand dollars range of good. Wiping it down with a microfiber cloth is as far as I'd dare go.

Most good instruments are finished with either varnish or in some cases nitrocellulose. Varnish is more appropriate for a violin as far as I can tell. Nitro is very shiny and a bit harder.

phil
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Re: anyone know about old violins?

Post by phil »

Thanks , that's good advice. I just sold a radio from about 1935 to a fellow collector yesterday and I made the remark that I had done nothing to it and sure I could easily wipe it down with oil and make it look more presentable. He was happy I hadn't touched it or worked on it and I feel the same when buying things. To a collector, nothing done is often more attractive that something done improperly. Actually the restored ones can be harder to sell as they want to have the fun of doing that. I pointed out that the bolts and rubber washers underneath showed it probably hadn't been out of the case anytime recently. The fact the old crumbly rubber washers were there was a positive, even though if you were to restore it putting new rubber washers would be a matter of course. same principle

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Gothichome
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Re: anyone know about old violins?

Post by Gothichome »

Phill, if the instrument turns out to be next to worthless, you'll at least have a proper Tommy gun case.

Olson185
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Re: anyone know about old violins?

Post by Olson185 »

Gothichome wrote:Phill, if the instrument turns out to be next to worthless, you'll at least have a proper Tommy gun case.


Or, maybe, a nifty tool box for things that don't fit in a conventional tool box.
~James

Fourth generation in a family of artists, engineers, architects, woodworkers, and metalworkers. Mine is a family of Viking craftsmen. What we can't create, we pillage, and there's nothing we can't create. But, sometimes, we pillage anyway.

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SouthernLady
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Re: anyone know about old violins?

Post by SouthernLady »

Yay! A violin question! :D (I'm a violinist on the side. :violin: )

Sometimes when a violin has gone for a long time without tension from the strings, the sound post can move out of place. That's the little wood dowel-like thing that's kind of under where the bridge is located. They can be a pain to fix, but it's not impossible. I STRONGLY recommend taking it to a luthier. Don't even think about buying some cheap Red Label strings and trying to string it yourself. As the tension increases from the strings, any stress cracks could pop. I once witnessed an old cello tightened up without inspection, and the bridge broke and flew across the room. Thank God it didn't hit anyone.

You've got a lot of good advice here. I am so glad it was mentioned NOT TO TOUCH THE FINISH! Old patina is very desirable, IMHO. Some finishes can be touchy, and I would think it possible for certain chemicals not to have a loving relationship with any resin residue that could still be hanging around the bridge area. I have a special violin cleaner I use on mine that's safe for the finish and effectively cleans off the resin dust. Many fiddlers leave the dust, but that buildup can be a pain.

You should be able to easily inspect for any labels inside by going out in bright daylight and rocking the violin back and forth while looking through the F holes.

I'm looking forward to hearing who the maker is.

My great-great-grandfather was known for being quite a good fiddler at the cornshuckings and quiltings. I wish someone had thought to pass on his old instrument.

Neat-looking fiddle you got there, my friend.

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