More fixer upper furniture!

[Al F. Furnituremaker]

since the wood is so old (possibly 100yrs) is it going to shrink anymore? Or should I futz around with the Figure 8's or some other wood tabletop attachment hardware?

Wood continues to move even after it "dries". It reaches EMC, equilibrium moisture content, with its surroundings. As the humidity changes so the wood moves. The majority of the movement is across the grain.

About those 1950 chairs - would they have been assembled with hide glue?

Any Gunlock chairs I've worked on have not used hide glue. I believe they were an aliphatic resin (yellow wood glue), which is not water soluble. You will need to use a glue with gap filling properties. The mortise and tenon needs to be well cleaned. I usually use an epoxy for its gap filling properties and resistance to movement.

[Kashka-Kat]

Re: mortise & tenon needing to be cleaned…. does that mean cleaned of all the old glue…. or just any dirt and crud that may be in the joint? If glue, how would it come off if not water soluble? Or… can the epoxy adhere to old glue if its stuck on tightly?

Thanks!

[Al F. Furnituremaker]

Cleaned of dirt, crud, and old glue. You can't get the all the old glue out because the glue that was holding the joint together has impregnated the wood, that's how it works, and that's why tight fitting joints are needed. Aliphatic resin has poor gap filling properties. Since the joint is now loose, it is no longer a good tight joint and aliphatic resin will not provide a solid joint. Don't leave any chunks of dried glue in there because they will be the weak point. I usually run the correct size flat bottom drill bit down into the mortise removing any junk, and scrape or sand off the tenon, in both cases removing as little wood as possible.

[Kashka-Kat]

Al, do you have a recommendation for type/brand of epoxy glue... or will any 2 part hardware store epoxy do? Actually I have a boatload of Abatron wood hardener which is a 2-part epoxy I believe and Ive used that for gap-filling & glue-like functions on my porch this summer - maybe I could just use that?

Thanks so much Al - its great being able to now proceed with confidence with my project instead of just guessing and hoping for the best ( how I usually do things).

[Al F. Furnituremaker]

I use the West System Epoxy. #'s 105, 206, 403. I get it from https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/u ... o?pid=3760 . I recommended it to an estate manager who used it on portico gallery rails exposed to the weather and he was very happy with the results.

The quantity may be more than you want to buy. If you don't want to buy this much, just get a two part liquid mixture that says it is good for wood. I don't know anything about Abatron.

[Kashka-Kat]

Hope Al or other old furniture-loving folks are still around? I was just going to put my table back together when I discovered that two legs are completely loose (see 2nd table pic posted last yr). Besides cleaning and tightening the bolts should I put glue in the joints between leg and apron & angle piece. There are some significant gaps between a couple of the angle and apron pieces but I think its more due to wood shrinkage - cant really squeeze them together. I know you (Al) have said elsewhere that epoxy is the best gap filler glue, but this article suggests that hide glue can do it although not as good: http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/glue.htm

If I use epoxy, I believe I would have to take it all apart to clean out old hide glue? Or maybe Id want to do that anyway even if hide glue - kind of dirty in there. Guess Im reluctant to take apart because its only the upper joints that are loose - the bottom (where shelf attaches to leg) are secure. But.... if that's what has to be done then so be it.

This is exactly where so many of my projects get stuck - not sure what to do next. So any advice will be most appreciated - thx!

[Al F. Furnituremaker]

Looks like the corner blocks are glued and screwed. I'd take the screws out and see what falls apart. If the corner blocks are glued on to the aprons they can probably be knocked off. Especially if it is old hide glue. Then the mortise and tenons will need to be re-glued. If hide glue, just adding more will probably work, if you can get it in there. You can test for hide glue with water, it will soften, or taste it ( you might not know the taste ). You might be able to get the bottom joints apart by wiggling them, tapping them, or adding water (if hide glue).

If I was doing it in my shop, I would disassemble it all.

[Kashka-Kat]

Thx! Its definitely hide glue - I know the odor.

I took off nuts and most of the top joints came apart. The bottom brace + shelf is still attached to the legs - seems very tightly glued. Left the bolts in the legs - would be a beast to remove those.

Do you have any advice about how to reassemble - in what chronology? Since this table still has bottom brace/shelf attached, I think I would have to screw the corner angle pieces on first, and THEN glue on the apron pieces?

Or is it better to glue apron+ corner angle pieces together first and THEN attach to the legs? It seems this way would give me tighter joints.

This question applies both to this project and another one - I have a similar table that is completely disassembled.

Wish I could hire someone to do this part of it - my old reliable guy is not doing it anymore, says no one wants to pay what its worth.

[Kashka-Kat]

OK I got out my long bar clamps - plus assorted other types - just going to put on the new hide glue whereever I can, clamp however I can.... and hope it all comes together reasonably square! I must say, one thing about hide glue I like is the idea that if I goof it up, I can soften it with water, disassemble and start over. Whoever thought that could be a virtue!

[Al F. Furnituremaker]

Sounds like a plan. Good Luck.