Hullo from the "there be dragons here" area of MA

[Lily left the valley]

Just a quick congratulations (hopefully not too soon!) that you seem to finally be at the end of the long road to owning this home...

Since you have changed out locks before, how about a quick trip to the store for a few locksets/deadbolts to swap the moment you take ownership? There are some inexpensive ones out there that will keep the house safe without the potential expense of the locksmith after hours, etc. Unless the ones there are something special you want to keep, no need to rekey them and you could install something you like and want to keep.

Good question at the right time, as this has come up before, but things were different then.

Back when we made that decision, we didn't know how many different locksets there would be, and what size, etc. Now that I'm thinking on it again, actually, we decided this when we still thought we were buying the Carpenter Gothic which did turn out to have several different sized locksets, as well as more old outer doors I didn't want to cut into if I didn't have to. We also were hoping that somehow, despite all the lock types, we could have a "one key to rule them all", which I personally do not have the skill to do.

We honestly only finally took a good look at the locks at the bungalow two days ago. Yet once we saw how similar they all were, I honestly don't know why were we still intent on following the smith path. The garage side door has to be worked on anyway because it doesn't even close proper which we also didn't know until this week because the realtor locked up after each showing, so I never really tested that door. In fact, I only knew the exterior basement door shut tight because of the viewing where the realtor had a fit because someone had left it wide open.

I just mentioned this to spouse, and he agrees that we just never reconsidered after we had the knowledge of what locks were at the bungalow. We've been so overwhelmed with the last minute stuff that we didn't take the step back and just think. One thing that has started occurring to us in general this week is how much of a blur everything has been of late. So if anyone else asked this since Wednesday, and I just spaced it completely--I am truly sorry.

So I guess the powers that be sent the storm so our closing couldn't possibly be tomorrow. That gave you the perfect time for your query, and that knocked our noggins at a time when we were ready for it. So thank you for that, at just the right time.

Now I'm wondering what else we've been on automode about... Guess I'll be revisiting the "near closing" ToDo list tomorrow.

[Deb]

Once the keys are in hand, just take a moment to BREATHE! Work on the immediate things like changing locks, cleaning and moving. The rest will fall into place.

[phil]

If you want to keep the locks, if you are comfortable removing them you could take them into a locksmith and save the home visit cost. Generally if they are unlocked they can make a new key if you dont' have one or swap/ file the tumblers to make a new key fit.

with the snow and whatnot, messing with the locks with the door half open is easy for a locksmith and they can be tricky especially if you are exhausted already.

if you wanted to do it yourself it should be possible if you have a key that fits to file or reorder the tumblers. there is probably good Utube info on it. Ive done some simple locks and it was just a matter of finding a key with a shape that fits, then to file the tumblers so they are flush with the key stuck in. if your locks all have a common pattern to the blank key it's probably cheap. a locksmith would probably install new tumblers rather than file them. Ive done that with car locks before I'm not too familiar with all the intricacies of house locks but it is probably not too hard if you are so inclined. locksmiths know the tricks to getting the tumblers out but i am sure there are utube videos on that too. I think you can usually get the tumblers apart if you have the lock unlocked and if it's locked and you dont' have the key it might need to be picked first.
if you go taking locks apart make sure you do it in a tray or somethign so you don't loose tiny springs and such. take photos so you dont' loose track of the orientation of parts.

Im not sure how everyone feels about the digital programmable locks. it might make it seem too modern or maybe it looks like you spent money on the locks but then you can change the code if you want to give someone temporary access. I think you can get them so they fit standard hole configurations without going too high in price. if you have one door with a key code type lock at least you wont lock yourself out. .

more than one lock makes them harder to pick, with the Utube videos on lock bumping it shows how to break into common key locks pretty easily but if you have more than one lock it gets a lot harder and if you have an uncommon (old) lock a would be crook perhaps wouldn't be as likely to have a bump key pre-made for it.

one quick and dirty fix I have done like for the basement door that I don't use so often is to take a couple of angle iron bars like from a bed frame and drill two 1/2" holes, then hacksaw them into U shaped slots. put a 3/8" lag bolt on either side into the stud beside the doorjamb. The bar slips behind the heads and can easily be removed. it's ugly but cheap simple and very effective. make the slots loose enough so you dont' have to fight to lift the bars out . if you are looking at securing the doors it is often a good idea to take some of the screws out that go into the jamb and put long screws that go right into the studs behind the doorjamb.
you are left with a couple of lag bolt heads sticking out so it's not too cosmetic but if it's a door in the basement or something maybe it's practical. after the locks are sorted out you could just use the bars if/when you feel you need extra security.

if you have a roll up door sometimes you can put a pair of vice grips to hold the latch thing so it can't possibly be unlocked from the outside. usually there is a slider thing that goes into the track. that might save re-keying the garage door for now if it has one.

if you just have one new lock and if you can lock the others some other way even temporarily it might delay the frustration of contending with it during move in. then you could make time for each later after you rest.

the deadbolt style locks are better as you can't do the credit card trick. you might have the choice if you buy a new knob/lock

what Ive done before if there are two locks is to cut a stainless steel plate to fit the two holes and replace the two striker plates. made that fit the jamb and then held that with long screws as well so it's hard to kick open and break out the latch pocket. often they aren't very sturdy because the striker plates have been changed and the screw holes get worn out. If you were to install a deadbolt where there was only one lock you might be able to just buy a common striker plate that fits but the spacing between the two holes is important. there are probably standards in this day and age but not with old houses.

another way is to just use the existing striker plate and drive/stick a piece of heavy tin behind the doorjamb and then replace the two screws that hold the latch plate with longer ones that now go through the striker plate. the doorjamb, the tin piece and right into the framing.
you could check windows , sometimes you can just use a C clamp to make it so they cant' open until you can fix any locks that dont' work. or cut a stick to fit.

it's nice to make them so you cant easily kick them in or open them with a pry bar really easily by prying the hinge side. You cant' defeat a kid with a crow bar so there are limits. the new battery powered angle grinders will cut any normal hasp type lock in about one second and you can be too paranoid. I know it's just a common worry when moving though. hope I didnt' stoke the worry with suggestions.

Phil

[Lily left the valley]

General update first: I contacted all the folks it seemed I ought to, and we still haven't received a firm date for closing. With the snow we had the other day, there were a lot of shut downs, so that stalled things. I found it sort of funny, actually, to get a letter from the law office saying that "closing will not happen today" (yesterday now). Do they really do last minute things like this?

So I'm thinking it won't be Monday either, because how could they give notice to everyone in time? I had written the law office, letting them know that spouse's current schedule was off Monday and Wednesday, so I guess maybe it will be Wednesday, based on how everyone thought we'd close on Friday, and the weekend + his schedule.

We're due more snow this weekend, but not nearly as much as we had just that one day. So hopefully that won't cause any delays as well.

I also just now remembered that both electric and cable (for internet only) said they need at least three days out to schedule the other turn on (we're definitely going to keep electric here until we're moved out, we're still dithering on whether we'll just move the cable, or have it at both for a short spell.) The cable isn't the rush, but I'm sure the sellers will want the electric changed over ASAP.

I guess I'll add "call electric" to the list for today. Lots to do today, honestly. I was under the weather for a few days, so didn't really get much done then other than whatever had to be for the mortgage madness.

Sunday I'll probably try to clean up my desk which is currently a sea of too much unorganized paperwork. I'm sure half of it isn't relevant anymore. I still keep finding bits and pieces pertaining to the other houses.

Deb: Yep, we sure will remember that! Yesterday was his birthday, but he got called in to help since we weren't closing and one of the carriers had a bad fall on the snow day, so he helped her with parcels and did a short day. We spent the rest of the day being bums. He got to eat his traditional Carvel ice cream birthday cake (he was born in Florida, so ice cream in February isn't a stretch with that in mind), we watched a movie and some shows.

phil: I do not have the confidence that I'd manage to file them well enough in the time we'll have before we'll want to sleep after closing.

I think we are just going to get new locksets for the short term. Then we can stop worrying about one more thing being tied to the closing date we still don't have. We'll just go out and get them this weekend.

I've seen bump keys, so I know what you mean there. Electronic is snazzy, but honestly, with the front door a french style, they could easily just smash and reach around if they wanted even with the electronic. We don't have any relatives who live anywhere nearby, so we wouldn't use the visitor passcode option often anyhoo.

The reality is, if someone wants to get in badly enough, there is always a way. I myself even have used cards when I've accidentally locked myself out of certain apartments in the past, and in one case even a friend's because she left me the wrong key!

If we lived in a higher crime area, I'd be much more cautious overall with any possible entry. I was half joking about the signage because even with them, if they want in because they think it's worth it despite the signs, they will get in.

I still think our plan of moving over the every day stuff as soon as possible is the best way to go. I'm also going to take up EC's suggestion and knock on a few doors of the neighbors we have not yet me as well. Normally, I'd bake to bring with on my knocking, but with all the food restrictions folks have these days, I wouldn't know what was "safe" for general gifting.

[Gothichome]

Lily, glad to read your almost at the threshold of old home ownership. All though I'll miss the ups and downs of the continuing saga. But like all good mini series, they come the end. Looking forward to the sequel, after you get the keys.

[Lily left the valley]

Aww, thankies!

Spouse was asked to fill in on Monday for the carrier that fell. We're fairly certain they won't try to do closing with so little notice, and we're expecting another foot + of snow today, part of which won't fall until tonight. (I realized since I'm posting just after midnight here, that may be confusing to some folks if they read it before Sunday their time. I mean today/tonight=Sunday EST.)

So hopefully closing Wednesday.

We keep joking about the pushbacks, now that we know we don't have to extend the rate lock. Since our rent included heat, we're fine with the wait since we paid towards this winter all summer & fall. The seller did one last mini delivery last week to make sure we weren't on E when we moved in. It was just under a 1/4 tank when we were there Wednesday, so we should be ok there even with the temperature dips we've had.

[Lily left the valley]

Welp, I'm starting to believe that either our mortgage guy is definitely charismatic but horrible at his job, or he honestly believes we have stashes of cash in lunchboxes we'll simply dig into when push comes to shove.

Here's my progression yesterday, with spouse causing the first transition, then joining in again around the 4th from last... --> --> --> --> --> --> --> --> -->

Here's the shortest sum up I can manage: I talk to mortgage guy (yesterday) at 9am after being woken from a whopping three hours' sleep by a frantic call from spouse who is filling in at work, and can't talk on the phone long. Mortgage guy says that there's a hitch, we can only get a set percentage credit back max as per law. He said all we had to do was a one page amendment that clarified that that percentage would be credited back. He made it sound like everything wasn't perfect, but it would be fine with just this one page.

Here's the remainder of the story, where things only get worse...I was still half asleep and confused at this point, and it wasn't until I was relaying this to our realtor that it finally sunk in what this really meant financially for the seller and for us. I think I've also mentioned that the seller's agent is now on vacation. He has other agents that will likely have to help with any changes, but he is away until I don't know when. He did the whole handover of the keys because he assumed he'd miss closing even if it was this Wednesday.

That led back to me calling mortgage guy to make sure, and then give him a very restrained what for about the state of things this late in the game. (He made a crack about "blame Dodd-Frank" trying to deflect, which made me so angry.) Without getting into the math, this means that out of the $5K we had added to the mortgage that was supposed to be credited towards closing, only part of if can be used for closing credits, and the remainder would now be the seller's to keep. We would have to come up with anything leftover from the credit out of pocket. Mortgage guy is the one who came up with the $5K estimate to ensure we would not have to pay anything at closing.

We still do not have either a Closing Date that is official, NOR do we have a copy of the final closing costs. It might be that your immediate response would be, "Well why didn't he just compensate for that in the first place?" It was certainly mine, and it would have at least been nice for someone to mention we'd essentially be giving the seller money on top of the originally agreed upon sale price this way. We're not saying that would have prevented us from taking this method because we really, truly, in absolute scout's honor from the depths of our souls want this house to be ours. It's just the additional irritant discovery on top of the bad news is all, because mortgage guy never flat out said that part. In fact part of why I was so confused in my half asleep state was I knew something was missing, and it was only after our realtor said it plainly that the bell rang and I groaned yet again that morning.

We were painfully clear not so long ago when we told him that either we pay the blood debt, or we close. That's when the idea of the adding the closing costs onto the mortgage with the credit came to be. So why now is he suddenly recalling a government mandated rule that's been around for how long now? Is this only an issue because the state agency we're going through caught it and said, "NO"?

I think our realtor said it best: "Hasn't he ever done a mortgage of this type before?"

My concern is since the state agency step is where it got flagged (supposedly the last), if they tried to push it through again with the correct math this time, the state will totally see what they did and just laugh at them. I noticed mortgage guy never suggested this as a possibility, but I'm sure waiting for it.

The last time I spoke with him, I said the only way we'd have a clue as to whether we could close or not is if we could see the final closing costs. Again, he says, "We won't know closing costs until everything's approved". We were supposed to close last Friday. How can they not know closing costs by now? Two snowstorms and a weekend or not, they should have already known this stuff early last week before the first storm.

I told mortgage guy that he knows darn well by now how unpredictable spouse's paychecks can be due to some Post Masters he subs for not getting their time cards in on time. His last check pretty much went straight to paying the home owner's insurance, with very little left. He doesn't get another check until the 24th, and we simply can't bite deeply into that because since they kept postponing giving us the closing date, we couldn't give our landlady 30 full days' notice, so even if we could move out by March 1st, we'd still have to pay at least something to her. So no matter what that check is, it's already mostly spoken for because of that.

He hems and haws, then out of the blue says, "Well, you could drop the Home Owner's Title Insurance", to which I fired back, "Why on earth would we do that?!" He then asks, "Well, really the bank's insurance will be covering for the first 30 years, and how long do you expect to live there?" I honestly and tersely reply--because he's been told many times over that this is the only home we intended to buy--"When we're dead." He pauses, then says, "I'll see if can get the final closing costs out of the lawyer and call you back." Of course, no call back, and we were still so hopping mad we were almost glad he didn't call back because at this point, we've not only had it with all this nonsense, but we're tired of the roller coaster of "we have a problem" "we have a solution" "we have a pro..." and on and on. Our Ship of Despair has long sailed, and now there is only the Sloop of Irritation left to carry us in these roiling waters.

Even if we did decide not to take the insurance, wasn't that already done by now? How can we not pay for something that should have been done prior to closing when everyone was oh-so-certain closing would be last Friday before the first storm hit on Thursday?

The cost difference still wouldn't be enough to make up for the lost credit by far if the numbers we've been seeing are anywhere near accurate. We simply do not have that much, and next to no guarantee that even if we wait until spouse's next check, we could then without royally sticking it to our current landlady for the short term, which we simply will not do.

Both times I talked to our realtor today, we were on the same page and frustrated as all get out. We are out of ideas, and we feel like we've been dragged under the mortgage wheels way too long for them to stop the train, wiggle us out, and then ask us for fare.

All aboard the Sloop of Irritation!

[eclecticcottage]

I'm sending a PM. We had a similar problem with the Old House.

[Lily left the valley]

This morning's update: Mortgage guy says without the one page P&S addendum, he cannot get closing costs. So we won't have a clue until maybe tomorrow, since spouse is at work, and I don't know what is required in order to get the electronic sig from the seller who is out of state (with the realty's cover person acting as temporary go between).

So now, in between laundry and other catch up bits of things I didn't get done when I was under the weather, I'm punching in the numbers we have from the "Closing Cost Details" into Excel, and I'll just try to figure out on my own what the best and worst case scenario is based just on that.

I feel like I have to do something proactive towards the house today, or I'm going to lose my mind.

[Lily left the valley]

I tried to do some figures based on what we had from the bank as to the "estimated closing" costs.

Well, I didn't realize it at first, but there's a weird thing that happened when we changed the P&S that may be in our favor, but I'm not sure just yet.

Originally, spouse had this notion where he wanted to bring the last of the down payment to closing so he could feel more part of everything payment wise, and not just a signature making drone. It was what he wanted, we had already met the 3% required by our mortgage type, so no one took issue. If it made him happy, why would I argue?

However, when the P&S was redrawn up the other week, and I admit I completely missed the change at the time, instead of having that $1000 as being promised from buyer, that remainder had been rolled into the borrowed amount.

So instead of the $100K loan, we had in fact changed to $101K. (Still well within appraisal.)

Now this is where it gets interesting...

According to the rules regarding the mortgage funds, we can only get a set percentage of the mortgage itself as a credit towards closing.

However, even short of the last $1000 we had intended to bring to bring our down payment to a full 5% of the 100K purchase price (before amendment to try to cover closing with the credit), we are still $1000 over what is required for a down payment.

So when we met our realtor to sign the amendment acknowledging the percentage back for closing, we pondered over this turn of events.

Is it possible, we wondered, even though that money is already in escrow, that the bank can use it towards closing? It's our money, not part of the mortgage, so technically this might work?

I'll be asking mortgage guy later today.